OV9

It’s weird seeing the split in opinion around her. Go into traditionally more conservative places and you’d think she was akin to Pol Pot but in my personal SM she’s generally well thought of.

She seemed very determined and good at kicking up a public fuss, but what has she actually achieved in 8 years though? Education, drug use, life expectancy are all fucked in Scotland and they're no closer to independence.

The SNP have been shit at running a country. Have they been more shit than other countries? Debatable.

I find the level of venom aimed at her uncomfortable though.

In those 8 years I never saw a single, comprehensive plan as to how we were going to survive, much less prosper as an independent country. I'm not against independence, so all I wanted to see was a clear plan backed-up with facts.

In recent years, the SNP seem to have been using independence as a smoke-screen to cover their inability to actually run the country and sort out the numerous problems we have. Like @Rich B says, in many ways, we're fucked at the moment. The SNP also seem to lack any self-awareness when they're blaming Westminster for everything, even those things which are under devolved powers, but with their other hand, asking for more handouts.

The strangest thing though is that a large section of supporters of the SNP seem to have developed in to an almost cult-like following for the party and Sturgeon, to the point where the country is literally crumbling around their ears but they just keep shouting for independence and questioning anyone who isn't backing them.

They've created a very divisive and toxic atmosphere up here where any chance of sane & rational debate on anything has become almost impossible. That, along with the very blurred line between what they should be doing in running the country vs Sturgeon's personal aims hasn't helped settle the atmosphere. She can also be very dismissive of any questioning of her views, the SNP policies rather than even giving the usual non-committal, non-answers that politicians are good at. Its all a bit of a vicious circle really.

I think it's because she has that smarmy smugness that winds people up. Especially when she's just as shit as the rest of them.

Every Scottish person I know in real life is happy she’s gone. I don’t follow Scottish politics enough myself to comment though.

IanF wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 11:14 pm https://alexmassie.substack.com/p/so-wh ... rgeon-ever

That pretty much nails it for me.

Why is it only the vociferous anti-Sturgeon Scots we hear from? There must be plenty who like her, since she kept getting voted in.

Jobbo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:24 am Why is it only the vociferous anti-Sturgeon Scots we hear from? There must be plenty who like her, since she kept getting voted in.

Scots vote SNP. You could have Boris Johnson leading the party and they'd still vote SNP.

She was a good candidate for leadership, good at playing the underdog and pointing out the obvious flaws in everyone else. Just not very good at actually achieving anything. Kind of like Jeremy Corbyn.

Rich B wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:40 am Scots vote SNP. You could have Boris Johnson leading the party and they'd still vote SNP.

Might be about to test that theory, one of the names being touted is Kate Forbes and she's part of a hardline sect of the CoS with some questionable views.

There no shortage of support for her up here and there's lots of glowing eulogies for her political career, but you tend to get more balanced/objective ones from journalists south of the border.

You have to give her and the party lots of credit for somehow staying in power for so long, while delivering so little. There's many references to the "cult" of Sturgeon and you only have to look at the mainstream press coverage up here to see how blinkered they seem to be to what's actually going on day to day in Scotland. Weird.

Rich B wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:40 am Scots vote SNP. You could have Boris Johnson leading the party and they'd still vote SNP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Unit ... l_election

"The Scottish National Party (SNP) made a net gain of 13 seats and won 3.9% of the UK vote (translating to 45% of the popular vote in Scotland)"

I'm going to say your statement's not even half right.

ZedLeg wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:44 am one of the names being touted is Kate Forbes and she's part of a hardline sect of the CoS with some questionable views.

Saw that last night. Anti abortion. Anti same-sex marriage. Welcome to the 1960's.

Kate Forbes is a member of the Free Church, so no surprise to hear some of those views. They're like Lady Whiteadder in Blackadder 2, but more hard-line.

Ascender wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:08 am you tend to get more balanced/objective ones from journalists south of the border.

Ah, but we couldn't vote for her!

I did get a lot from the Irish press during the Brexit process; they were able to analyse our situation from a unique position where they have strong historic ties and a land border, but were remaining in the EU and didn't want to leave.

mik wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:14 am

Rich B wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:40 am Scots vote SNP. You could have Boris Johnson leading the party and they'd still vote SNP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Unit ... l_election

"The Scottish National Party (SNP) made a net gain of 13 seats and won 3.9% of the UK vote (translating to 45% of the popular vote in Scotland)"

I'm going to say your statement's not even half right.

ZedLeg wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:44 am one of the names being touted is Kate Forbes and she's part of a hardline sect of the CoS with some questionable views.

Saw that last night. Anti abortion. Anti same-sex marriage. Welcome to the 1960's.

it's a pretty overwhelming majority, particularly for a party that hasn't achieved anything?

Rich B wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:40 am

mik wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:14 am

Rich B wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:40 am Scots vote SNP. You could have Boris Johnson leading the party and they'd still vote SNP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Unit ... l_election

"The Scottish National Party (SNP) made a net gain of 13 seats and won 3.9% of the UK vote (translating to 45% of the popular vote in Scotland)"

I'm going to say your statement's not even half right.

ZedLeg wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:44 am one of the names being touted is Kate Forbes and she's part of a hardline sect of the CoS with some questionable views.

Saw that last night. Anti abortion. Anti same-sex marriage. Welcome to the 1960's.

it's a pretty overwhelming majority, particularly for a party that hasn't achieved anything?

It's a bit like the Brexit scenario politically isn't it? The SNP have one very clear ideology - independence. There is no unified pro-union party to counter that that people could otherwise set aside their differences to vote for. In the same way that the Cons sort of stood for Brexit, but because Lab wouldn't commit either way there was no clear unified party standing for Remain that voters were prepared to vote for.

Jobbo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:38 am I did get a lot from the Irish press during the Brexit process; they were able to analyse our situation from a unique position where they have strong historic ties and a land border, but were remaining in the EU and didn't want to leave.

Not specifically related to the Brexit reporting but in general, there is typically a wee bit of negative bias in the way the Irish Media report on British matters - at least based in my experience

Swervin_Mervin wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:48 am
It's a bit like the Brexit scenario politically isn't it?

Lots of similarities, and both followed similar tactics :

"Can we see a strategic plan that outlines how the UK would function after Brexit?"
"Look - don't worry about the details - we'll work those out later - but it has to be better than this shitshow doesn't it?"

"Can we see a strategic plan that outlines how Scotland would function after Independance?"
"Look - don't worry about the details - we'll work those out later - but it has to be better than this shitshow doesn't it?"

dinny_g wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:52 am

Jobbo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:38 am I did get a lot from the Irish press during the Brexit process; they were able to analyse our situation from a unique position where they have strong historic ties and a land border, but were remaining in the EU and didn't want to leave.

Not specifically related to the Brexit reporting but in general, there is typically a wee bit of negative bias in the way the Irish Media report on British matters - at least based in my experience

That's the balance to the crap produced by our media It's expected though.