It’s time for another forum cycle/vehicle disagreement

[PaulJ]

Mine was that age and cycling in the road but….

I told him when to stop and go, we talked about where he should be when in the car leading up to it, I talked through everything I was looking at when cycling and it was dry on a relatively low traffic area.

Rules are rules but there is no reason to be the right person in the morgue. I think the car was fine because as soon as you teach people to expect something they become less aware.

Dave!

You've just reminded me of a rhyme my Grandad told me after I passed my test. (Yes, that long ago!).

'He was right, quite right as he drove along, but just as dead as if he'd been wrong.'

[jamcg]

I think the biggest problem with a lot of cyclists now is created by so many rules in their favour- all the rules are there to protect them and they ride as if everyone is going to protect them (which they should, not saying the rules shouldn’t be followed)

What it has done is remove a sense of self preservation, so people don’t look for the cunt that will clip you with his wing mirror

[mik]

More Police commentary. (I think this is a genuine Poloce account)

[tim]

I'd love to know the office and experience of the person writing those tweets, and that it's not just Stacey from comms with a copy of the highway code.

[dinny_g]

I think the biggest problem with a lot of cyclists now is created by so many rules in their favour- all the rules are there to protect them and they ride as if everyone is going to protect them (which they should, not saying the rules shouldn’t be followed)

What it has done is remove a sense of self preservation, so people don’t look for the cunt that will clip you with his wing mirror

Very true…

Yet I’ll bet everyone of those same cyclists will look left and right at a Pedestrian Crossing when, in theory, they shouldn’t have to

[Ascender]

The debate is being held on twitter where there's no chance for any sort of nuanced argument, so it's a bit pointless. Nobody comes out of that video well, except for the fact of course that nobody got hurt.

I still think it's massively irresponsible to put a 5 year old in to that sort of situation on public road. They could have an excellent understanding of the Highway Code, but even with their father behind them advising, they lack the required experience, thinking and reaction times to, well, react.

Quite a few people have pointed that out but just get patronising replies about the hierarchy of the road and how everyone is out to get cyclists. This really isn't that.

The kid's five. He can ride on the pavement and nobody will complain about him being a danger. Because he's five f*cking years old.

[mik]

I'm fully with @tim and Mike @Ascender .

It's interesting (to me) that Advance Driving training focusses a lot on hazard perception skills, and taking actions to avoid placing yourself in higher-risk situations.

The current vocal cycling fraternity seems to have gone in completely the opposite direction - as THE HIERARCHY means cars must yeild to us, I will boldly cycle into danger in the full knowledge that vehicles have to comply with the Hieratrchy! We have a video where nothing happened. The car should have slowed down. But it was doing about 8mph. IWell, i's not only a bike, it's a CHILD on a bike - they should have pulled in and stopped completely!.

And what if a 3yr old child had stepped into the road, coming out from between the white vans on the left hand side? As he is at the top of the Hierarchy the 5yr old on a bike would have had to stop! Immediately! And yes maybe a 3yr old shouldn't have been crossing the road at that point, but his parent was behind them telling them to "go ahead" as it is their RIGHT to do so as the highest in the hierarchy, and lets be clear - cyclists don't own the bloody road. Etc etc.

[tim]

I don't disagree the car should have given way. I also don't disagree that parents should be able to allow their kids to cycle on the road, when they feel their own kid is responsible enough to listen and react in a predictable way, both to the parent giving instruction and other road users. But you shouldn't do that if you can't read the road far enough ahead to see situations developing, or are too focused on your rights to care.

This is the common basic failure of most drivers/riders/cyclists, and pretty much the first thing you get taught in any kind of advanced driving or riding - look much further ahead, look for the hazards and make a plan well before you arrive.

Information & Position are the first two tenants of the system of roadcraft all advanced drivers and riders, emergency services etc, are taught. For good reason.

The bloke should have seen that situation coming - it was obvious they were going to meet at a pinch point long before it happened - and been much further out to the kid's offside dominating the position on the road and protecting his kid, so the driver would have been left in no doubt there is no room to pass here. A cheery "thanks!" as he went by would have been all that was needed then, whether thanks was needed by right or not.

[Swervin_Mervin]

I don't disagree the car should have given way. I also don't disagree that parents should be able to allow their kids to cycle on the road, when they feel their own kid is responsible enough to listen and react in a predictable way, both to the parent giving instruction and other road users. But you shouldn't do that if you can't read the road far enough ahead to see situations developing, or are too focused on your rights to care.

This is the common basic failure of most drivers/riders/cyclists, and pretty much the first thing you get taught in any kind of advanced driving or riding - look much further ahead, look for the hazards and make a plan well before you arrive.

Information & Position are the first two tenants of the system of roadcraft all advanced drivers and riders, emergency services etc, are taught. For good reason.

The bloke should have seen that situation coming - it was obvious they were going to meet at a pinch point long before it happened - and been much further out to the kid's offside dominating the position on the road and protecting his kid, so the driver would have been left in no doubt there is no room to pass here. A cheery "thanks!" as he went by would have been all that was needed then, whether thanks was needed by right or not.

He's probably not interested in riding well though - just interested in being "right", even if that get's his 5yo kid harmed.

[Jobbo]

Bit of a surprise that Sajid Javid waded in - that can only end badly.

ETA: I've also considered it from the oncoming Focus driver's point of view. If that had been me, I'd almost certainly have stopped but I'd have given the parent a big shake of the head.

[mik]

Bit of a surprise that Sajid Javid waded in - that can only end badly.

You naughty man - you made me go and search.

Interesting that this is a longer version of the vid (also posted by Jeremy Vile) - the child himself sees the potential hazard ahead and even asks his dad "should I pull over to the side?" - to which his father responds "no"

[mik]

Another interesting vid from same bloke.

Traffic calming restriction ahead - including a cycle lane to allow cyclists to safely navigate, separated from the rest of the traffic. I will not use this. It is my RIGHT. Others must then yield due to THE HIERARCHY.

[tim]

I hadn't seen the longer version. What an absolute bell-end. And saying "fucking hell" behind his kid too.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Another interesting vid from same bloke.

Traffic calming restriction ahead - including a cycle lane to allow cyclists to safely navigate, separated from the rest of the traffic. I will not use this. It is my RIGHT. Others must then yield due to THE HIERARCHY.

Tbf, in that instance, he was well in the carriageway on the approach and it was fairly clear what his intentions were - she should have seen him coming. Don't have any issue with that. Lots of cyclists don't use the cycle lanes as quite often they're on the worst bit of the carraigeway where either the surface is fucked or there are knackered gullies.

[Jobbo]

Another interesting vid from same bloke.

Traffic calming restriction ahead - including a cycle lane to allow cyclists to safely navigate, separated from the rest of the traffic. I will not use this. It is my RIGHT. Others must then yield due to THE HIERARCHY.

Tbf, in that instance, he was well in the carriageway on the approach and it was fairly clear what his intentions were - she should have seen him coming. Don't have any issue with that. Lots of cyclists don't use the cycle lanes as quite often they're on the worst bit of the carraigeway where either the surface is fucked or there are knackered gullies.

Yeah, I'm with Merv on this - ignoring the hierarchy of road users, he has priority according to the signage and the Golf coming the other way crosses a Give Way line. There is plenty of reason not to use those rubbish gaps either side of the bollards; they're full of debris, narrow and totally unsuitable.

Having said that, the fact that he keeps uploading videos of altercations with drivers does not bode well. He's a wannabe Cycling Mikey/Jeremy Vine.

[mik]

I'm weird then, as I can't think of a single time I haven't used one of those lanes. There is one near me that doesn't have one - the traffic calming restriction goes all the way to the kerb, and it really annoys me.

But yes the Golf driver is still a dozey git.

[tim]

"they're full of broken glass" is a shit excuse given it clearly wasn't. Obvs car should have stopped, tho.

[ZedLeg]

Is the conclusion of these videos always that everyone involved was a cunt?

[Simon]

I'm weird then, as I can't think of a single time I haven't used one of those lanes. There is one near me that doesn't have one - the traffic calming restriction goes all the way to the kerb, and it really annoys me.

But yes the Golf driver is still a dozey git.

Same. There are a few around here and TBH I'd much rather use one that getting 'pinched' in with vehicular traffic, no matter which way they are going.

Yes, some cycle lanes are bad, but certainly not all.

[Swervin_Mervin]

I'm weird then, as I can't think of a single time I haven't used one of those lanes. There is one near me that doesn't have one - the traffic calming restriction goes all the way to the kerb, and it really annoys me.

But yes the Golf driver is still a dozey git.

You're not weird - well not for that reason anyway - it's just one of those things. Some people like to use the cycle-specific infrastructure and feel more comfortable doing so, and others don't. Neither is wrong or weird.

It is worrying just how many people seem to think cyclists have to ride in a cycle lane though if there's one provided.