OV9

So, a moral conundrum for you. Would you work for a cigarette company assuming you had other choices. Would your significant other maybe have something to say about if for example they worked in healthcare?

All purely hypothetical obviously but thought I'd ask the question given most of us are probably of a similar age.

I'd have no issues working for a cigarette company.

But for context, I've also worked for the Army, and the place that builds the UK's nuclear warheads. I imagine some would have ethical issues with both of those.

Sundayjumper wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:39 am I'd have no issues working for a cigarette company.

But for context, I've also worked for the Army, and the place that builds the UK's nuclear warheads. I imagine some would have ethical issues with both of those.

Which is spooky as that's something else that has come up recently and for some reason I feel less uneasy about that one than the cigarettes. Which is weird.

GF interviewed for a tobacco company early on in her career. She wouldn’t do it now but she needed a job at the time..

It’s a difficult one. All depends on the details I suppose. How much are they offering and how much do you need it. I personally don’t think I would, but then I’ve worked for online casinos in the past without considering the ethical side of things. People have a choice to gamble/smoke. If you don’t take the job someone else will.

Ascender wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:45 am ... for some reason I feel less uneasy about that one than the cigarettes. Which is weird.

It is, isn't it ? Smokers have a large element of choice in whether they smoke or not. Russian conscripts on the receiving end of an NLAW, less so.

Life is complicated.

I'd have ethical issues with working for a cigarette company but I also grew up poor so I'm pragmatic about letting ethics get in the way of getting the bills paid .

My current job is working for a company that manufactures in China then ships all over the world, which does rankle with my general beliefs around climate change and other things but it kept us in food and shelter just after I moved through here. I've recently been thinking about trying to find something else but I'm not sure what I'd do.

Ascender wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:35 am Would your significant other maybe have something to say about if for example they worked in healthcare?

My solution is that I don't have a significant other.

Earlier in my career I probably would take the job but now I probably wouldn't.

I'll chuck another one into the mix - I'm not sure I'd want to work for an airline. I have a real downer about the environmental impact.

Air travel causes monstrous amounts of pollution and the fares don't reflect it, but nobody will tackle it because telling the public they can't have their cheap holidays any more would be political suicide.

That's the thing, I don't need it just now and its not incredible money or anything like that. Just a bit weird to be conflicted like that, regardless of Mrs Mike's current career, it does sit uneasily with me. I had the news on this morning first thing and there was a couple talking about the tragic impact gambling can have, driving some people to take their own life and they compared the current situation to the tobacco industry where everyone involved knew how bad it was for you, but they paid for favourable research and flat-out lied that they were healthy for you etc.

I'd be lying if I said cigarettes didn't have a terrible impact on older generations of my family too, but I suspect that's true for most.

The universe is clearly sending me signs...

All I need now based on Mrs Mike's current hospital placement is for an offer to come in from an alcohol company and I'll have the full set.

Invoice and smile.

tim wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:14 amInvoice and smile.

The contractors union would be proud

"Its all billable" is pretty much my mantra.

I've passed on this one. What's happening to me? I blame old age and kids and stuff...

I wouldn't work for a Cigarette Company. And in the past, I've refused to do work for a Payday Loan company on principal.

I realise both of these scenarios have an element of choice attached to them - a person chooses to smoke, a person chooses to take out a dodgy loan etc. But, in particular with the loan example, it isn't cut and dried and I also have a choice and have to be able to look at myself in the mirror every morning.

I wouldn't work for a cigarette company, payday loans, or gambling

And I think the "people have a choice" argument is often used to salve our own conscience...

To some degree people do have a choice, however, all the above companies work as hard as possible to make their products as addictive as possible

dinny_g wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 10:37 am I wouldn't work for a Cigarette Company. And in the past, I've refused to do work for a Payday Loan company on principal.

I realise both of these scenarios have an element of choice attached to them - a person chooses to smoke, a person chooses to take out a dodgy loan etc. But, in particular with the loan example, it isn't cut and dried and I also have a choice and have to be able to look at myself in the mirror every morning.

same I think - not sure I would work for a company that I fundamentally disagree with the output of.

Depends what the day rate is

At my end of work, we have to be a little careful about who we work with, because the moment we start taking coin from any of the 'bad guys' we get dismissed as an industry shill. Of course, if I want my work to head towards being for big players in industry, then I'd jump at the chance.

I wouldn’t work for an old fag company because they all lied that cigarettes are good despite knowing they killed people. Maybe if there’s such a thing as a newer fag company I’d be okay with it as they’re selling products which have warnings plastered all over that they’ll make your knob rot off in 100 different ways. So it’s all transparent.


Likewise I’d never work for someone like DuPont who have knowingly poisoned every living thing on this planet and continue to be despicable cunts.

From the research I've done, all the big players are still there, but are now having to downsize and re-focus on vapes, roll-up papers etc.

The subject came up in the pub last week as well where a former colleague had left to work for Monsanto a while back (before Bayer bought them) aka the company who manufactured Agent Orange. It was a pretty good day rate apparently.

Ascender wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:35 pm From the research I've done, all the big players are still there, but are now having to downsize and re-focus on vapes, roll-up papers etc.

The subject came up in the pub last week as well where a former colleague had left to work for Monsanto a while back (before Bayer bought them) aka the company who manufactured Agent Orange. It was a pretty good day rate apparently.

Chemical companies in general are pretty bad. Monsanto has a long list of shitty behaviour but so does DuPont and most others. That's before you even get started on the drug companies.

ZedLeg wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:43 pm

Ascender wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:35 pm From the research I've done, all the big players are still there, but are now having to downsize and re-focus on vapes, roll-up papers etc.

The subject came up in the pub last week as well where a former colleague had left to work for Monsanto a while back (before Bayer bought them) aka the company who manufactured Agent Orange. It was a pretty good day rate apparently.

Chemical companies in general are pretty bad. Monsanto has a long list of shitty behaviour but so does DuPont and most others. That's before you even get started on the drug companies.

I mean, make a large global conglomerate - any of them - and you'll find they've done shitty things. See Nestlé and Coca Cola, etc

Tobacco industry is quite interesting as they're being forced to adapt to significant proportions of thier customer base in the developed world either quitting, or at least quitting the extremely low cost, high margin combustibles and moving onto lower margin, more technically complex electric devices - be that vapes, or heat-not-burn, etc.

Watching the big players flounder to adapt over the last few years has been quite enjoyable, but they are starting to catch up - some of the big tobacco e-cig products are pretty decent these days.

Yes, its like something out of Austin Powers or James Bond when you make the obvious realisation that all these companies are so big that of course they have lots of normal people doing normal stuff like admin, PC support etc.

I do feel like I've made the right decision. Agent was pissed off.