Running

[Gavster]

In another thread, Beany was talking about all his running pals having fucked knees and we all know this is a common stereotype applied to runners. I used to get a lot of knee problems when I started running around 15 years ago. After each race I'd have knee problems for six weeks that took me out of action.

However, today I never have any knee problems, which sounds counter-intuitive after piling another decade of running (including a marathon) on top, my knees should be written off? The injuries were always due to too much training, at a fast pace, increasing the volume too quickly. Over the period of six months in 2008 I went from barely being able to run around the block while coughing up lung butter (I'd just quit smoking) through to a half marathon in 1:30 at the same time as losing 15kg in body weight whilst still getting cained staying up all weekend. No wonder my body kicked back.

There was no conception of appropriate ways to build volume, the value of good rest, cycling training through phases, or strength and conditioning.

It's true that people might get knee problems if they launch into running, as it's common to go out the door and sprint down the road then wonder why it hurts so much. That doesn't mean running fucks your knees, it just means you need to take it easy.

[Gavster]

Whenever I start training long, I notice my work suffers. My work involves a lot of research, analytical thought, reasoning and decision making, such as researching and developing policy proposals.

Work is my no.1 priority at the moment, so I started googling to see what the brain needs to recover more quickly from extended exercise (probably glucose). Whilst looking, I discovered that there's a link between physical fatigue and mental fatigue that can affect the specific neural skills my work calls for. Nutrition does also have an impact, for example, maintaining a calorie deficit to lose fat at the same time would compound this effect on the brain.

However, it appears that marathon, or ultra marathon training is somewhat incompatible with intensive analytical and reasoning work, which means I need to make a choice.

[Gavster]

Jesus christ time flies

After that last post I began lifting weights, which has been useful and I can see the benefits of strength training. It's also helping to balance some strength imbalances between the left and right side of my body. After all, the best runners in the world also lift weights. I also changed my diet to make sure I was getting the protein for muscle, alongside lowering my carbs - especially sugar - and increasing fat. I seem to eat a lot of full fat greek yoghurt/Skyr and nuts these days!

I did almost zero running between May and November. But running is the only sport that I really love, and I've tried a lot of sports . It's the only activity that I will happily get up and do 'for fun' at any time of day or night, so I started running again in November, alongside the weights and genuinely loved it. I did a spontaneous 5am journey over to box hill for a early morning hilly trail run at the end of Nov and it was epic... the movement, scenery, sunlight, air, grass, mud etc.

So I'm back on my feet with 2023 as a year for running 5k races. PBs at this distance are probably behind me now at the age of 45, so I'm focussing on building strength, improving form and training in cycles to prevent injury and build for running again next year, which will be focussed on 10k races.

First race is a 5k benchmark in the Olympic Park next Weds to see where I'm at. Then I'll train until late March where I've booked another 5k for Sunday 19th. That'll be the end of my first training cycle of the year.

Anyone else running this year?

[Ascender]

Sounds like good progress with the healthy eating and strength training @Gavster. I'm the same as you, running is the only thing above all else I want to do, although I'm trying to do more biking.

It's been 2-3 years of injuries and illness so I've been starting to just try and run 5 times a week on a local 5k loop to get some base fitness going. 3 weeks in to that and I cracked my ribs so have been limited to the turbo trainer. I managed a short, slow run yesterday in some pain, but didn't make anything worse at least...

I want to get back to hill/trail running and ideally ultra distance, but that might not be possible, so I've got a place in the Edinburgh marathon in May - I thought that's a reasonable target and I could follow one of the many structured training plans. So assuming I can start to run regularly again in the next few weeks I'll go for that.

Are you following any plans or just using your own experience to plan your cycles?

[Jimmy Choo]

Every time I try to do a C25k i manage to injure myself. I'm on a bit of a weight loss journey at the moment (4lbs down since before Christmas) and when I'm lighter I'll try again. I did enjoy running but it was hard work.

[Gavster]

Sounds like good progress with the healthy eating and strength training @Gavster. I'm the same as you, running is the only thing above all else I want to do, although I'm trying to do more biking.

It's been 2-3 years of injuries and illness so I've been starting to just try and run 5 times a week on a local 5k loop to get some base fitness going. 3 weeks in to that and I cracked my ribs so have been limited to the turbo trainer. I managed a short, slow run yesterday in some pain, but didn't make anything worse at least...

I want to get back to hill/trail running and ideally ultra distance, but that might not be possible, so I've got a place in the Edinburgh marathon in May - I thought that's a reasonable target and I could follow one of the many structured training plans. So assuming I can start to run regularly again in the next few weeks I'll go for that.

Are you following any plans or just using your own experience to plan your cycles?

Owwww the ribs that's an injury that stops anything fun for a while!

Hill and trail running is the best, I want to get away for some decent hilly weekend trail runs once I've built my training volume up again.

Doing a marathon in May sounds a little bit ambitious without much training volume in the bank right now. I did it once and was fending off injuries by April. what's your history like with building volume and injuries?

Re: training, I've been through a ton of training plans including Jack Daniels running formula, Advanced Marthoning, Run Less:Run Faster as well as a bunch of others on the internet. I've now started using Matt Fitzgerald's 80/20 plans, because the training is bounded by heart rate, which stops you from chasing a fast pace in training and also makes sure that LSRs are slooooow. I'm pretty sure that most of my past injuries have come from either chasing paces in my training, building volume too quickly, or from not having a rest after a few months of hard training (hence adopting the training cycles).

[Gavster]

Every time I try to do a C25k i manage to injure myself. I'm on a bit of a weight loss journey at the moment (4lbs down since before Christmas) and when I'm lighter I'll try again. I did enjoy running but it was hard work.

What kind of injuries did you get?

Running gets easier, and it also becomes more fun if you have even the slightest competitive nature, as you start to see your pace or times improve.

[Ascender]

My training used to be OK in terms of building volume - years of running long distances in training and races mean I used to be able to be fine for that and there's definitely some muscle memory there. Hopefully Marathon plan would be to get round in 4:30 or something, I wouldn't be going for a PB or anything, but also will just ditch it if I can't get back to a decent weekly mileage by the end of the month.

Thanks for the link, I'll check that out.

[Ascender]

Every time I try to do a C25k i manage to injure myself. I'm on a bit of a weight loss journey at the moment (4lbs down since before Christmas) and when I'm lighter I'll try again. I did enjoy running but it was hard work.

That's good progress on the weight loss already!

When you run, do you heel-strike or do you land more towards the middle of your foot?

[Jimmy Choo]

Every time I try to do a C25k i manage to injure myself. I'm on a bit of a weight loss journey at the moment (4lbs down since before Christmas) and when I'm lighter I'll try again. I did enjoy running but it was hard work.

What kind of injuries did you get?

Running gets easier, and it also becomes more fun if you have even the slightest competitive nature, as you start to see your pace or times improve.

First time I tore my ATFL, second time was my IT bands, knees and ingrowing toenails, third time was knee again. The physio thinks I have a degenerated meniscus so if I can cut down the impact by dropping weight, that will help. I'm also getting back into gentle exercise. Once the Xmas rush is over, I'll join the gym at my local leisure centre and get some swimming in too.

As for which bit of my foot I hit the ground with, I have no fucking clue!

[Ascender]

Every time I try to do a C25k i manage to injure myself. I'm on a bit of a weight loss journey at the moment (4lbs down since before Christmas) and when I'm lighter I'll try again. I did enjoy running but it was hard work.

What kind of injuries did you get?

Running gets easier, and it also becomes more fun if you have even the slightest competitive nature, as you start to see your pace or times improve.

First time I tore my ATFL, second time was my IT bands, knees and ingrowing toenails, third time was knee again. The physio thinks I have a degenerated meniscus so if I can cut down the impact by dropping weight, that will help. I'm also getting back into gentle exercise. Once the Xmas rush is over, I'll join the gym at my local leisure centre and get some swimming in too.

As for which bit of my foot I hit the ground with, I have no fucking clue!

I was just asking as the biggest difference I made to running injuries was when I stopped heel-striking. Totally reduced the number and severity of injuries I got, even when doing big mileages.

Dropping weight and doing some more cross training will definitely help all of us!

[Gavster]

What kind of injuries did you get?

Running gets easier, and it also becomes more fun if you have even the slightest competitive nature, as you start to see your pace or times improve.

First time I tore my ATFL, second time was my IT bands, knees and ingrowing toenails, third time was knee again. The physio thinks I have a degenerated meniscus so if I can cut down the impact by dropping weight, that will help. I'm also getting back into gentle exercise. Once the Xmas rush is over, I'll join the gym at my local leisure centre and get some swimming in too.

As for which bit of my foot I hit the ground with, I have no fucking clue!

I was just asking as the biggest difference I made to running injuries was when I stopped heel-striking. Totally reduced the number and severity of injuries I got, even when doing big mileages.

Dropping weight and doing some more cross training will definitely help all of us!

The heel/forefoot strike debate often conceals the real reason for injury prevention when people change their running form. There's been no conclusive evidence that either heel or forefoot is objectively better, however, there is a link between increased Ground Reaction Force (GRF) and increased injuries.

GRF is how heavy you land on your feet and therefore determines how much pressure is transmitted through your body. Changing from heel to forefoot can easily reduce your GRF, which then could lead to less injuries. It can also be achieved in other ways, by shortening stride to achieve a cadence around 180bpm and by paying attention to the amount of vertical osscilation in your form - which is how much you bounce up and down when you run. All of these things can lead to a lighter, smoother running form, lowering your GRF and therefore getting less injuries too.

[Ascender]

Yes, I wasn't going to come in all evangelical about midfoot running and zero drop shoes, but definitely worth thinking about your form. When I switched, I also shortened my stride length and like you say, those two things naturally reduce how heavy you land, so who knows.

[DeskJockey]

After about a month off, I did my first run yesterday. Not pleasant, but not as bad as I feared. Looking forward to being able to run in the woods again (when they're not a slippery mud bath). No real goals except to get some exercise.

My friend has run every Park Run in London, one weekend at a time, and has now set his sights on the commuter belt ones.

[V8Granite]

It can also be achieved in other ways, by shortening stride to achieve a cadence around 180

The only issue here though, which is a big one, is that people who run like that look like they have poohed themselves.

Dave!

[Mito Man]

[McSwede]

I need to get back at it! Been so busy at work I have just fallen out of the habit and am now fatter than I'd like. When I clear this cough that I have then I will be back running. I need to trim down for health reasons as well as felling better about myself, plus I have a few foreign trips with customers so want to be trim for days by the pool . Also another promotion is just about to be announced and that's another reason why I want to feel good about myself.

I "WILL" be running again very soon!!!

[Gavin]

I just started up again on the 31st. Done two x 5ks, one a local park run. Really slow times, 32 mins each more or less.

Also did a decent 7 mile hike over some local hills which was nice so plan is to build slowly, I am not looking at smashing times just enjoy taking part.

If my torn shoulder allows I am going to sign up for Aviemore wild triathlon.

[Ascender]

I just started up again on the 31st. Done two x 5ks, one a local park run. Really slow times, 32 mins each more or less.

Also did a decent 7 mile hike over some local hills which was nice so plan is to build slowly, I am not looking at smashing times just enjoy taking part.

If my torn shoulder allows I am going to sign up for Aviemore wild triathlon.

I was thinking about triathlons again, will have to look at that Aviemore one.

Hill walking is a great way of building fitness, especially for hilly races (obviously) where you are inevitably going to be doing a bit of walking!

[Gavin]

I just started up again on the 31st. Done two x 5ks, one a local park run. Really slow times, 32 mins each more or less.

Also did a decent 7 mile hike over some local hills which was nice so plan is to build slowly, I am not looking at smashing times just enjoy taking part.

If my torn shoulder allows I am going to sign up for Aviemore wild triathlon.

I was thinking about triathlons again, will have to look at that Aviemore one.

Hill walking is a great way of building fitness, especially for hilly races (obviously) where you are inevitably going to be doing a bit of walking!

If I do sign up it will be the shorter distance as I almost always overdo injury "comebacks" but would be lovely to meet a fellow OV9er if you do go for it!