OV9

Recently it occurred to me that for ‘us’, the best cars of all time have already been designed/made. I Don’t want to appear pessimistic, but am I wrong?

No, I think you're right. I think it is a bit like musical tastes: what catches you in your formative years stay with you.

Nah, change isn't always bad - I like new cars, I like new music!

Must admit, I have pretty much zero interest in evo car of the year these days. A huge proportion of the cars I’d fill my euro millions warehouse with would be from the 80s / 90s

I know where you're coming from but I think you can always appreciate "fitness for purpose" and the whole EV revolution means they can be better than ICE cars in the right use case / environment, e.g. city commuter. I would not want one for long or unpredictable journeys or to go for a B-road blast.

But even in the remaining ICE land, the bigger/flasher/faster trend has just gone completely over the top. Hot hatches with 400bhp, super saloons with >600, etc. And the prices! My god.

The obsession with driver aids, touchscreens and wall-to-wall screens is another major bug bear... there is so much unecessary technology just for the sake of "progress" but actually your job as a driver is to take responsibility and DRIVE.

Sorry, rant over (it's been a while )

PaulJ wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:45 pm Recently it occurred to me that for ‘us’, the best cars of all time have already been designed/made. I Don’t want to appear pessimistic, but am I wrong?

People have been saying this ever since cars were invented

Yeah I guess it's a bit of a generational thing. Some really old people see anything post pre-war as white goods. Then the older people are kinda stuck from the 60's to the 80's. Then you've got the middle aged 90's to 10's fans. (Massively overgeneralising here, but you get my stick).

For me when full self driving is only allowed on all public roads and thus naturally private car ownership is outlawed, I guess that will be a sad day.

Define 'best'.

New cars are probably better in most measurable ways and are designed and marketed for people who are likely to actually buy new cars, rather than nerds on the internet that care about 'feel' or 'involvement'.

Hence why most of us don't own new cars, but then they're not for 'us' anyway so don't worry about it

Who knows? <shrugs>

Other than aurally I am sure we’ll have some great and tactile EV sports cars.

I am still in love with Manuel boxes, so many recent cars can’t tick all boxes for me. That doesn’t mean they aren’t good - driving Pete’s 600LT was epic. But I still want to own a manuel. Cos I want to be in the middle of either either getting it right, or fucking it up.

Loving that Porsche have recognised there is still room for Luddite transmissions. Emira has promise, and I am still very keen to see what the new Noble M500 offers.

dan wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:02 pm Define 'best'.

New cars are probably better in most measurable ways and are designed and marketed for people who are likely to actually buy new cars, rather than nerds on the internet that care about 'feel' or 'involvement'.

Hence why most of us don't own new cars, but then they're not for 'us' anyway so don't worry about it

I kinda agree, but I think Barry has the right idea; fancy pants, quiet, comfy electric car for the dull stuff, and bike/CTR (when it's MOTd - does Barry still have the CTR? ) for fun stuff.

I'd have a Leaf and a slightly ratty Puma tomorrow if it made financial sense for me.

As for new cars? Meh, there's always something new ish that suits our tastes (GT86, MX5, etc) and if not, used cars like Clio 182, E90 M3s, c63s etc are far, far more long lived than their twenty year old equivalents; I'd trust a 20yr old E39 M5 far more than I would have a 20yr old Cossie in period, for example.

In all honesty, on a broad level I genuinely don't think "we" have ever had it so good.

Edit: god, that's scary optimistic/positive from me, isn't it?

Beany wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:20 pm

dan wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:02 pm Define 'best'.

New cars are probably better in most measurable ways and are designed and marketed for people who are likely to actually buy new cars, rather than nerds on the internet that care about 'feel' or 'involvement'.

Hence why most of us don't own new cars, but then they're not for 'us' anyway so don't worry about it

I kinda agree, but I think Barry has the right idea; fancy pants, quiet, comfy electric car for the dull stuff, and bike/CTR (when it's MOTd - does Barry still have the CTR? ) for fun stuff.

Civic is alive and well, did an evening at Donington Park with MattH/Ben a couple months back even. Ioniq goes back next Feb but I'm still tempted to continue the experiment, with an upgraded EV (Kona/Niiro type thing) as they are just brilliant daily hacks.

As Dan says, they're great at what they do, but I don't go out for fun drives in the EV (it gets upset very quickly if you push beyond 7/10ths - low resistance tyres, heavy car, soft ride, not a lot of power).

Still got three bikes too, which covers most of my fun excursions.

I do hanker after something special, to replace the Civic, but the stuff I want is big money to buy and maintain and I'm not hankering that hard. Also, now Coaster lives nearby I get to live vicariously through his GT3 ownership

Apart from some big fast family bus and the new Ineos as a family bus, I’ve zero interest.

Either numb controls, not the engines I like or getting excited over connectivity does nothing for me.

The last new car I drove alone properly was a 530e and it was absolutely awful. Heavy, bad steering, artificial feeling brakes and not that big inside yet the owner was praising it like it was the second coming. Clearly I’m a generation behind what people want.

It’s no bad thing, I just hope there are enough of us lovers of old cars about to keep us on the road but not enough to make us a big tax target.

Dave!

I agree with Paul.

No interest in the latest and greatest these days although a 997 gt3 would do where it was a 996 years ago.

The main problem I have is the interior looking out of place. My m coupe never did as that was how it was supposed to look.

All the stick on screens and shiny plastics in everything now are going to age terribly.

But I’m odd, I’m quite happy for my plastics to look like black plastics not some sort of fake metal

mik wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:19 pm Who knows? <shrugs>

Other than aurally I am sure we’ll have some great and tactile EV sports cars.

Unless there’s a radical jump in battery tech, like people have been promising for years, or you’re happy with a sub 100 mile range, it’s just not going to happen. Weight alone means you’ll never get a lightweight, nimble, useable ev sportscar.

I’m not that pessimistic. I find the Lucid Air quite interesting for a variety of reasons. They’ve managed to miniaturise the motor, diff and transmission into a 74kg package that can fit into a carry on suitcase. And it’s 670bhp. Get some solid state batteries alongside with and you can have a light nimble ev sportscar.

There can’t be many more petrol and diesel models to be released before they can’t be sold any more from 2030; but I bet there will be some end of an era special models.

Give me a Taycan Cross Turismo and I’d be happy. Will be interesting to see what depreciation is like when the second generation version appears, because early EV tech is probably going to look pretty old hat fairly quickly.

Cross Turismo or Sport Turismo, now that they've released the later?

Cross - you know I like my Allroad types