OV9

Jobbo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:55 pm Dinny, do you not think it would cost less to transport people safely over the channel instead of this ridiculous situation where dead bodies are dragged out of the sea?

I'm not really thinking about the costs Jobbo - that doesn't really come into it for me. It's about saving lives.

I think the result of ANY form of safe passage will result in a massive increase in the numbers crossing Europe, all destined for the UK. We can only "Process" (Sorry horrible word but you know what I mean) a finite number per day so there might well be a humanitarian crisis in France with thousands waiting for their turn.

At the risk of getting all Brexity about it, I think the French, and to a degree, the European Union have a lot to answer here. If we assume the majority of those migrants crossing the channel entered the EU through the Med then the Migrant crisis is a European problem and you don't solve it by not stopping them crossing the channel and thus calling it a British problem.

Also, Rich is correct. The only way safe passage would work if everyone transported could stay - and this is obviously not feasible

dinny_g wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:33 pm Also, Rich is correct. The only way safe passage would work if everyone transported could stay - and this is obviously not feasible

I don't agree with that. Not everyone who crosses in a pedalo or lilo is entitled to stay. Why would it need to be any different if people were to have a safe way of crossing? In fact, we could take back control of our own border more effectively instead of relying on the French, because we'd have far better knowledge of how many people arrive, where they arrive etc.

If someone flees Syria due to persecution, makes to Europe and safety, then gets safe passage to the UK facilitated but the UK Government only to get sent back to Syria ???

How's that helping them ?

How will that reflect on the UK internationally ?

And for the record, I'm not arguing we do nothing about, I just don't see Provision of Safe Passage as the answer

Jobbo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:40 pm

dinny_g wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:33 pm Also, Rich is correct. The only way safe passage would work if everyone transported could stay - and this is obviously not feasible

I don't agree with that. Not everyone who crosses in a pedalo or lilo is entitled to stay. Why would it need to be any different if people were to have a safe way of crossing? In fact, we could take back control of our own border more effectively instead of relying on the French, because we'd have far better knowledge of how many people arrive, where they arrive etc.

But every one who crosses over and gets turned away will then be offered the same shitty deal by traffickers, and because they've already been turned down official entry they'll be all the more vulnerable to being trafficked into illegal professions presented to them by the traffickers.

The attraction is purely the lack of numbers deported. I'm all for them being taken to an island, processed, and then sent to wherever.

Boris is all about the political posturing as opposed to a proper deal with France, and he's fucked up again. Talks now off because it's clear to the French it's all for show, as evidenced by him posting his letter to Macron on social media.

To be fair to Macron (I cant' believe I said that - a bit of sick just came up ), this isn't a French and UK problem. If they flood the beaches of Northern France with patrols, they'll just move up the coast to Belgium. Needs a joined up strategy - France, Belgium, the Netherlands and the UK

Migrants aren't just to be dealt with by France and the UK, I agree. But deaths in the English Channel are a specific problem which only the UK and France can address, ideally together or you end up with Priti Patel's ridiculous policies such as jetski dodgems.

Or Macron's policy - stand around and watch them leave...

Probably a good idea to engage with France and discuss a cooperative arrangement then, rather than Boris stamping his foot in public and nixing the talks before they start.

These poor people are leaving from France and then drowning. Perhaps it's Macron who should engage to try to prevent this from happening.

Jobbo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:03 am Probably a good idea to engage with France and discuss a cooperative arrangement then, rather than Boris stamping his foot in public and nixing the talks before they start.

I thought it was Macron who cancelled the meeting? I've read the letter, I don't see why it would be an issue?

He cancelled the meeting because Bojo made an ostensibly serious diplomatic letter about a very serious problem into a social media post.

French Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin said Mr Johnson's public letter was "unacceptable" and the president said later he was "surprised by the methods when they are not serious"

Beany wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:18 am He cancelled the meeting because Bojo made an ostensibly serious diplomatic letter about a very serious problem into a social media post.

French Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin said Mr Johnson's public letter was "unacceptable" and the president said later he was "surprised by the methods when they are not serious"

Definitely worth risking more lives to make the point.

Rich B wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:27 am

Beany wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:18 am He cancelled the meeting because Bojo made an ostensibly serious diplomatic letter about a very serious problem into a social media post.

French Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin said Mr Johnson's public letter was "unacceptable" and the president said later he was "surprised by the methods when they are not serious"

Definitely worth risking more lives to make the point.

Definitely nothing to do with upcoming elections in France or Macron's inferirority complex.

The complete bollix that is being spouted by Gérald Darmanin is laughable but no-one's calling it out.

"Everyone knows there are more than 1.2 million illegal immigrants in Great Britain, and that British employers use this labor force to make things that the British manufacture and consume." - so allowing migrants to work is a bad thing??

"It is often said that France doesn't deport enough, but we deport about 20,000 people a year. [the U.K.] expels 6,000, four times less than France, even though there are more people and twice as many illegal immigrants. - so not engaging in mass deportations is a bad thing ??

He's saying the whole problem is the UK's fault for having decent Social Welfare and an attractive Job's market...

Oh, I'm not saying he's right to cancel the meeting, but the justification of direct diplomatic correspondence not being expected to be made public - PR sanitised versions of them are - should have been seen a mile off by any reasonably competent person as having potential to cause a spat.

If you want to be really conspiritorial you could argue Bojo deliberately did it this way to put the blame on France etc.

I've not been following EU politics in detail lately, I'm assuming Macron and his cabinet et al are historically a bit knobby? In which case, even more reason to not be a bumbling eejit about it.

Yeah, Macron's a cvnt. And he's trying to face off a loss. But you're right, it's still a PR balls-up on our Gov't's part, given that they know how sensitive and childish the French can be.

Yeah Beany, a lot of his posturing is related to upcoming elections - I read a report last week about his support for the Post Brexit Fishing Licences Protest is because his numbers are very low in coastal communities etc.

Broccers wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:32 pm The attraction is purely the lack of numbers deported. I'm all for them being taken to an island, processed, and then sent to wherever.

Canvey Island?