OV9

Carlos wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 5:24 pm 530 is a phev now as is the merc e300 at 2210kg.

I'm not here to argue on the internet just pointing out it's not any heavier than an ICE equivalent.

Yeah the 530e at 1770 is what Parkers list - I e. the phev.

I don't really care as they all weigh far too much imo, but I feel I have to be all Rich B about the figures at least

Parkers must be showing old data - BMW’s own site shows the new shape 530e to be 2080kg. The new 520i non-hybrid is 1800kg.

Jobbo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:37 am Parkers must be showing old data - BMW’s own site shows the new shape 530e to be 2080kg. The new 520i non-hybrid is 1800kg.

I did wonder if Parkers simply wasn't up to date. So the new 5 phev is 300kg heavier than the outgoing model? I assume that's a bigger battery then and more like a proper phev then?

Swervin_Mervin wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:54 am

Jobbo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:37 am Parkers must be showing old data - BMW’s own site shows the new shape 530e to be 2080kg. The new 520i non-hybrid is 1800kg.

I did wonder if Parkers simply wasn't up to date. So the new 5 phev is 300kg heavier than the outgoing model? I assume that's a bigger battery then and more like a proper phev then?

Don't forget that the ugly adds weight too. Scientific fact. E39: beautiful, lithe, light. Current Fsomething: Like Miss Trunchbull in Mathilda.

DeskJockey wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:19 am

Swervin_Mervin wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:54 am

Jobbo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:37 am Parkers must be showing old data - BMW’s own site shows the new shape 530e to be 2080kg. The new 520i non-hybrid is 1800kg.

I did wonder if Parkers simply wasn't up to date. So the new 5 phev is 300kg heavier than the outgoing model? I assume that's a bigger battery then and more like a proper phev then?

Don't forget that the ugly adds weight too. Scientific fact. E39: beautiful, lithe, light. Current Fsomething: Like Miss Trunchbull in Mathilda.

Probably the weight of the grille

It is a pretty horrible looking thing now Has that "melted in the sun" coupe look in side profile, that Merc have been championing for years

Saloons and estates, I’ve a mental barrier of 2 tons.

SUVs shouldn’t be over 2.3 tons.

Hatches under 1.5 tons.

Super minis 1.2 tons.

When cars are above those figures I just think badly designed lard boxes.

Dave!

What about a 469bhp motor, gearbox, differential and inverter which weighs only 32kg?
https://www.thedrive.com/news/lucids-n ... -70-pounds

100 litres of petrol, fuel tank, pumps and lines etc would be around 125kg, that’s pretty good going and the weight drops as it’s used.

Lots left on IC engines yet.

Dave!

V8Granite wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 11:55 pm 100 litres of petrol, fuel tank, pumps and lines etc would be around 125kg, that’s pretty good going and the weight drops as it’s used.

Lots left on IC engines yet.

Dave!

Gearbox and diff?

It's closing in on you Dave lol

Hey, how many miles between rebuilds on either the Nissan or Lucid lumps?

Beany wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 1:45 am Hey, how many miles between rebuilds on either the Nissan or Lucid lumps?

how many times have you rebuilt an ICE? I’m zero in 26 years of driving - I’m assuming you’re lots more?

Beany wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 1:45 am Hey, how many miles between rebuilds on either the Nissan or Lucid lumps?

I couldn’t care less, I’m over 640,000 total miles on the 4 of mine and only 1 failed cambelt tensioner pulley causing actual damage.

What’s the failure point of an electric motor? It will be years till cost effective motor repairs are with us and if people keep going using the argument of ultimate efficiency then they can car share and use lane 1 in a stream of joyless drones.

All the cool kids will be making noise, changing gears and picking up chicks .
The ones who want the electric cars probably wear hemp underwear, eat carbon neutral kale and don’t shave their armpits.

Dave!

That 1.5 litre Nissan engine was a bit of a shitter, it was the one used in the weird Le Mans Deltawing and I’m guessing it wasn’t very reliable as it’s been 10 years now and it’s yet to be fitted in any production car since.

V8Granite wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 11:09 am Saloons and estates, I’ve a mental barrier of 2 tons.

SUVs shouldn’t be over 2.3 tons.

Hatches under 1.5 tons.

Super minis 1.2 tons.

When cars are above those figures I just think badly designed lard boxes.

Dave!

I always describe my car as a sensible 3-door hatchback. Just checked and its DIN weight is 1405kg. Phew!

V8Granite wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:30 am

Beany wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 1:45 am Hey, how many miles between rebuilds on either the Nissan or Lucid lumps?

I couldn’t care less, I’m over 640,000 total miles on the 4 of mine and only 1 failed cambelt tensioner pulley causing actual damage.

What’s the failure point of an electric motor? It will be years till cost effective motor repairs are with us and if people keep going using the argument of ultimate efficiency then they can car share and use lane 1 in a stream of joyless drones.

All the cool kids will be making noise, changing gears and picking up chicks .
The ones who want the electric cars probably wear hemp underwear, eat carbon neutral kale and don’t shave their armpits.

Dave!

Dave! shaves his armpits?!

The point of asking how many miles between rebuilds is that they're race applications, not road engines, and so are representative only of race engines, with almost no relation to actual production vehicles in any noticeable way.

After all, we had >1000bhp, 50kg 1.5 litre engines in F1 in the 80s. What did we get out of that? Slightly better turbocharging and fuel injection tech, and improvements in cam design. Not 400bhp 1.3 litre Fiestas.

Same for race electric motors, there might be edge case applications in terms of improving the life of armature wiring, or power recovery and efficiency but that's it. If you want them to last more than 1000 miles without exploding, they ain't gonna be revolutionary.

I didn't think the point I was making was that complicated or obtuse.

The regular road version of the Lucid motor including the gears and diff weighs a bit more at 74kg, but that's 670bhp so not terribly worse in terms of BHP per Kg.
Anyway, EV drivetrains aren't the problem, bloated cars, which then result in further bloated batteries, which then result in further bloated components are the problem. A lot of these new cars have about 200kg in merely wheels, tyres and brakes alone.

Maybe best to comment in this thread rather than start a separate one, but from the experience I have had of EVs as a passenger, the biggest issue with them isn't charging infrastructure, battery longevity, etc. its that the ride in them is absolutely appalling.

At least, for a good number of them at least. My friends Taycan I went in recently was unacceptable stiff laterally and the ID4s that Addison Lee seem to be tranistioning to make me want to vomit out my nose. It doesn't feel like they have a jarring ride from firm suspension in the traditional sense but more that it has far too much anti roll applied in that any bump generates a violent lateral shimmy from side to side that rocks you in your seat. Absolutely horrid sensation.

I'm trying to think back to the last couple of teslas which I've been in as I don't recall feeling that same sensation. I expect the issue is the massive weight somehow needs to be brought under control and that the suspension is set up on a way to deal with that. Obviously our god awful roads really accentuate the issue.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:46 pm

V8Granite wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:30 am

Beany wrote: ↑Sat Mar 23, 2024 1:45 am Hey, how many miles between rebuilds on either the Nissan or Lucid lumps?

I couldn’t care less, I’m over 640,000 total miles on the 4 of mine and only 1 failed cambelt tensioner pulley causing actual damage.

What’s the failure point of an electric motor? It will be years till cost effective motor repairs are with us and if people keep going using the argument of ultimate efficiency then they can car share and use lane 1 in a stream of joyless drones.

All the cool kids will be making noise, changing gears and picking up chicks .
The ones who want the electric cars probably wear hemp underwear, eat carbon neutral kale and don’t shave their armpits.

Dave!

Dave! shaves his armpits?!

Only the chicks, if they call themselves they, them, they aren’t getting in.

Dave!