OV9

Doesn't look like it's long for the world in it's current form.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... aving-push

What a mess they've made of things.

Tragedy

It's staggering to think that there hasn't really been a true Labour party in power since I was 1yo.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:08 pm Doesn't look like it's long for the world in it's current form.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... aving-push

What a mess they've made of things.

The Labour Party's big problem is that they don't have a coherent position on who they are. The left and centre of the party spend so much time fighting that they're not a serious threat to the walking open goal that is Johnson's cuntery.

Jimmy Choo wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:55 pm Johnson's cuntery.

Sounds like the name of an 18th Century gynecologists

Broccers wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:54 pmTragedy

Love the idea of a right wing one party state do you broccers?

Jimmy Choo wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:55 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:08 pm Doesn't look like it's long for the world in it's current form.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... aving-push

What a mess they've made of things.

The Labour Party's big problem is that they don't have a coherent position on who they are. The left and centre of the party spend so much time fighting that they're not a serious threat to the walking open goal that is Johnson's cuntery.

Exactly that, Labour should have had no problem building a majority over the last two years but they've pissed it away trying to entice people who won't vote for them while burying the people who were paying their fees. Starmer has been a disaster for them, who wants to see the leader of the opposition constantly agreeing with the prime minister over his own party supporters.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:20 pm

Broccers wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:54 pmTragedy

Love the idea of a right wing one party state do you broccers?

I'd vote for Labour if they had any brains / characters worth supporting. They seem to be so un electable its better the devil you know.

Labour's problem is a reluctance to accept the old Left wing politics just doesn't hold enough appeal, nationally, to win or sustain a majority

New Labour was a success because they kept just enough of the left not to alienate too many of the the rank and file but adopted enough of the centrist and to a certain extent, rightish policies to entice enough Liberal or conservative leaning voters to their party.

Shocking moment of agreement between you and I there broccers.

dinny_g wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:32 pm Labour's problem is a reluctance to accept the old Left wing politics just doesn't hold enough appeal, nationally, to win or sustain a majority

New Labour was a success because they kept just enough of the left not to alienate too many of the the rank and file but adopted enough of the centrist and to a certain extent, rightish policies to entice enough Liberal or conservative leaning voters to their party.

I don't think that's the case, left wing politics still holds appeal for a large proportion of the public. The issue that labour has is that every time the Murdoch and Dacre press start aiming at them they shit themselves and backpedal.

Obviously their other problem is that they've essentially lost Scotland as they're pro union. That's not going to change because they've traditionally needed the Scottish vote to get over the line.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:37 pm

dinny_g wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:32 pm Labour's problem is a reluctance to accept the old Left wing politics just doesn't hold enough appeal, nationally, to win or sustain a majority

New Labour was a success because they kept just enough of the left not to alienate too many of the the rank and file but adopted enough of the centrist and to a certain extent, rightish policies to entice enough Liberal or conservative leaning voters to their party.

I don't think that's the case, left wing politics still holds appeal for a large proportion of the public. The issue that labour has is that every time the Murdoch and Dacre press start aiming at them they shit themselves and backpedal.

Obviously their other problem is that they've essentially lost Scotland as they're pro union. That's not going to change because they've traditionally needed the Scottish vote to get over the line.

I, respectfully, disagree. Most people are still largely centrist imo save for a few noisy ones in their echo chambers), albeit perhaps increasingly polarised either left or right on certain very specific matters. The two party system is now wholly unfit for purpose as it was always based on left or right.

We're fucked, basically.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:40 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:37 pm

dinny_g wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:32 pm Labour's problem is a reluctance to accept the old Left wing politics just doesn't hold enough appeal, nationally, to win or sustain a majority

New Labour was a success because they kept just enough of the left not to alienate too many of the the rank and file but adopted enough of the centrist and to a certain extent, rightish policies to entice enough Liberal or conservative leaning voters to their party.

I don't think that's the case, left wing politics still holds appeal for a large proportion of the public. The issue that labour has is that every time the Murdoch and Dacre press start aiming at them they shit themselves and backpedal.

Obviously their other problem is that they've essentially lost Scotland as they're pro union. That's not going to change because they've traditionally needed the Scottish vote to get over the line.

I, respectfully, disagree. Most people are still largely centrist imo save for a few noisy ones in their echo chambers), albeit perhaps increasingly polarised either left or right on certain very specific matters. The two party system is now wholly unfit for purpose as it was always based on left or right.

We're fucked, basically.

Eh I don't know, obviously I'm not the best judge as my political circle is practically communist but it seems that among people my age and younger the range seems to go from moderately to extremely left wing. Obviously the aging population tends to push the politics the other way but I'm not sure we'll see the slide to the centre right that you would normally expect as millenials and Gen Z get older.

I mean, I'm 37 and if anything I'm more left wing than I was 15 years ago.

Education directs people to the left. Its run by the left. They get media jobs and become massive leftists.

You would think with all that ammo they would walk it - not even mentioning the millions of voters tony let in under immigration.

They really must be that bad.

Broccers wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:56 pm Being educated directs people to the left.

Education, and being educated are two different things

Beany wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:12 pm

Broccers wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:56 pm Being educated directs people to the left.

Education, and being educated are two different things

Indoctrination.

A lot of Labour's problems stem from the fact that a good 80% of the press is Tory. Look at the hatchet job they did on Corbyn.

Corbyn was a disaster, with or without the press.

Starmer's current problem is either that he's backing up the Tories against the 'working man' (see his upcoming support for raising NI to pay for social care - a levy that only working people will pay and not anyone who actually uses social care), or he's criticising the Tories but offering no credible alternative plan of his own.

Labour needs to start offering a realistic alternative rather than spending the days shouting at clouds.

Delphi wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:40 pm A lot of Labour's problems stem from the fact that a good 80% of the press is Tory. Look at the hatchet job they did on Corbyn.

No they aren't they just didn't like Jc for very good reasons. Half his own party didn't.

Aye, the centrist half who then brought Starmer in. Good work lads