Two weeks

[Sundayjumper]

Yeah, provincially where rates are already low-ish maybe it won’t do a lot. London and a radius thereof will be interesting. GG’s a perfect example. (Sorry GG, it’s not personal !!). If you don’t need to live in London your employer doesn’t need to pay a London salary. Salaries & housing prices do have a link. Maybe we can see some London office buildings converted to housing,

As for shifting jobs to the other side of the world… often easier said than done. My only experience of that is a place I used to work that bought an entire company offshore to do just that. It turned out that although the hourly rate for those staff was far lower, it took them twice as long to do anything and needed 4x as much management (from the UK) to do it to a decent standard. It was a bit of a nightmare.

[Sundayjumper]

…I still feel it shouldn't matter.

Lots of things in this world “shouldn’t” happen but they do, a lot.

[Simon]

We're being "blended". Maximum two days/week in the office but only pre-booked and as required. No option to go to warm a seat (with an approved exceptions policy for those that need it). They've also added a work from almost anywhere globally for 20 days/year with manager approval option.

Interesting. They know that comes with a whole host of tax issues right? Or maybe 20 days is the threshold below when those issues kick in?

@Jobbo I think you are a little mistaken. It _does_ depend on the job you're doing as to 'where' a WFH worker might reside. If, for example, it requires local market knowledge, or how much customer contact (even remote) they have, or whether it's knowledge of country specific laws, or what timezone they're in etc etc then there are many reasons why an India (for example) home worker might not be an appropriate substitute for a UK home worker.

[DeskJockey]

@Simon it is 20 days/year exactly for that reason. No tax implications. Or so I'm told.

[Sundayjumper]

Are you sure ? My memory of tax law is a bit hazy but I’m sure the criteria to fail the test for ordinarily resident is a lot more than 20 days.

A UK company paying UK residents in GBP and deducting PAYE at source I don’t see a problem.

[240PP]

90 days from memory.. didn’t the Spice Girls do something along those lines?

[Jobbo]

@Jobbo I think you are a little mistaken. It _does_ depend on the job you're doing as to 'where' a WFH worker might reside. If, for example, it requires local market knowledge, or how much customer contact (even remote) they have, or whether it's knowledge of country specific laws, or what timezone they're in etc etc then there are many reasons why an India (for example) home worker might not be an appropriate substitute for a UK home worker.

There are plenty of places other than India. And you aren’t quickly going to find large numbers of English qualified solicitors in low wage countries, to be specific to my own industry. But the point I’m making is that if you’re 5hrs’ travel from the office, you may as well be in a different time zone; you don’t have much to distinguish yourself from someone living in the Czech Republic. They can even be at the London office as quickly.

It’s not going to be an instant change. But recruiting and training people who work remotely is harder than doing so in the office. Becoming location agnostic is going to have an effect on salaries for new recruits.

[DeskJockey]

Are you sure ? My memory of tax law is a bit hazy but I’m sure the criteria to fail the test for ordinarily resident is a lot more than 20 days.

A UK company paying UK residents in GBP and deducting PAYE at source I don’t see a problem.

Not at all sure. But, in my case, it doesn't matter. The policy says 20 days, so that's what we have to follow. But the tax implications were discussed as part the limit, but I guess they went very low.

[Simon]

@Jobbo I think you are a little mistaken. It _does_ depend on the job you're doing as to 'where' a WFH worker might reside. If, for example, it requires local market knowledge, or how much customer contact (even remote) they have, or whether it's knowledge of country specific laws, or what timezone they're in etc etc then there are many reasons why an India (for example) home worker might not be an appropriate substitute for a UK home worker.

There are plenty of places other than India. And you aren’t quickly going to find large numbers of English qualified solicitors in low wage countries, to be specific to my own industry. But the point I’m making is that if you’re 5hrs’ travel from the office, you may as well be in a different time zone; you don’t have much to distinguish yourself from someone living in the Czech Republic. They can even be at the London office as quickly.

It’s not going to be an instant change. But recruiting and training people who work remotely is harder than doing so in the office. Becoming location agnostic is going to have an effect on salaries for new recruits.

Yes, why I used 'for example'

I think my company is an example of both our points of view. Whilst my office has shut permanently, that is an exception compared to the rest of the business who will go back to 'hybrid' working some time in the middle of next year. However, all my immediate colleagues are WFH permanently like myself. So, to reinforce my point, for us to do our jobs we have to have good knowledge of the UK web in particular, of how businesses, organisations and the Government function, some of us have UK security clearance and even if we never travelled to see a customer again I think it helps to be 'culturally aligned' to the customers we're dealing with etc etc.

However, as far as the techies behind the scenes go, we have a centre of excellence in Krakow, in Bangalore, in Costa Rica, in San Diego. They can be spread much more widely (and their salaries reflect this).

[Broccers]

How a thread on car theft turns into a working from home debate is truly remarkable. I guess with no transport you have no choice.... or get a bike which will be pinched as quickly in London.

[ZedLeg]

Just curious on the few comments about how COVID has introduced hybrid working and this being an opportunity to change where you live etc. We're seeing a strong desire to push employees back to how it was, headlines suggest US is doing the same. Do you think the changes in the way people work in the UK will be permanent enough to change where you live?

Genuinely curious. I think it would be amazing if the world adopted these changes wholesale tbh.

Not really that remarkable, we were answering a question

[Gavster]

We're being "blended". Maximum two days/week in the office but only pre-booked and as required. No option to go to warm a seat (with an approved exceptions policy for those that need it). They've also added a work from almost anywhere globally for 20 days/year with manager approval option.

Interesting. They know that comes with a whole host of tax issues right? Or maybe 20 days is the threshold below when those issues kick in?

@Jobbo I think you are a little mistaken. It _does_ depend on the job you're doing as to 'where' a WFH worker might reside. If, for example, it requires local market knowledge, or how much customer contact (even remote) they have, or whether it's knowledge of country specific laws, or what timezone they're in etc etc then there are many reasons why an India (for example) home worker might not be an appropriate substitute for a UK home worker.

Work-from-anywhere creates another big elephant in the room around visa requirements. If you want to work from another country then you should enter that country on a working visa, rather than a tourist visa, which brings a whole host of different complications and potential problems. The reality is that 99% of digital nomads just say they're on holiday when entering a country and working, but your company could never recommend that you do that.

I've sub-contracted and outsourced work to people in many different countries around the world and the experience ranges from absolutely mind-blowingingly great value through to utter despair at ineptitude. I've stopped sourcing most creative design-related work from outside the UK simply because having an intimate grasp of UK aesthetic sensibilities is quite rare in remote workers.

[KiwiDave]

Not really that remarkable, we were answering a question

You're welcome (and sorry for the thread hijack GG)

[Simon]

Read the thread.

[DeskJockey]

That's just unbelievable. How callous a person do you have to be to act like that?

[Beany]

That's just unbelievable. How callous a person do you have to be to act like that?

Apparently nicked from a few roads over with the owner chasing them.