Two weeks

[Jimexpl]

I don't think either of us want to live in London to be honest - it has its plus points but they're generally outwieghed by the bad (of which this is an admittedly dramatic example). It was more of a necessity living in London to work in the city and a lot of that has changed due to Covid and remote working. Our quality of life would improve dramatically if we moved but it would just be a wrench and a lot of upheaval to do it. As with many things, if we didn't have kids (well, a kid) to consider it would certainly make it easier.

I'm also not sold on the old Volvo plan unfortunately - I'm northern and not old money so it doesn't flick my switch

With our new car delayed and the balloon payment due on this one soon I keep thinking of cashing in on the high used car prices and running around in something like this for 12 months -

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-detai ... obcid=soc3

I doubt anyone steels the previous generation.

[duncs500]

I don't think we ever regretted moving out of London, plenty of great places that are acceptable to commute in from, and we both still go in relatively regularly to enjoy the upsides of the city. Got the best of both worlds now really.

I'd say get out soon while the little one is young.

[Delphi]

The fact this is a 2018 car, and this is still possible, I’m not sure how trading standards aren’t involved on mass- quite clearly the security features are not fit for purpose

100% this. It's fucking awful to have a car stolen, but when thieves can take it with so little apparent effort.

[KiwiDave]

Just curious on the few comments about how COVID has introduced hybrid working and this being an opportunity to change where you live etc. We're seeing a strong desire to push employees back to how it was, headlines suggest US is doing the same. Do you think the changes in the way people work in the UK will be permanent enough to change where you live?

Genuinely curious. I think it would be amazing if the world adopted these changes wholesale tbh.

[240PP]

My company (20,000 employees) has decided full time WFH has gone so well that we’ve been told we can work anywhere we like in the UK from now on. They’re looking at opening that up further.

It makes sense from a recruiting perspective if you don’t have to restrict your talent search to an area within commutable distance from the office.

[Rich B]

My company designs and builds office interiors, so we see pretty directly what lots of companies are doing. There are plenty of companies who have basically abandoned the office, but there seems to be a massive amount more that are now trying hard to get people back into the office - though not necessarily full time.

The trend is basically smaller sites with more flexible work settings - more meeting/collaboration type rather than everyone having their own desk. If people want to work from a desk on their own, the argument is that lots prefer to do that from home.

However, there's plenty of industries that have found it affects productivity or is difficult to achieve because of the tech required.

Something like game design is potentially difficult to flexibly work from home and an office because the kit required to do the work is too expensive to have set up in two locations for each user.

Then there's my industry which is fast paced and relies on different disciplines working together, without all the little back and forths that come from being sat near each other, the end result is noticeably worse. I'm back in the office almost full time and far happier that way.

With regard to recruiting - that's been most companies biggest issue. Trying to bring a new starter into a business where there's no actual office to go to and no culture is hard and the cost of recruitment is pretty huge, so you don't want people just drifting off to the next faceless company every year or so.

[ZedLeg]

Everyone at my work that doesn’t have to be at a dispatch centre is now on flexible remote working. We can basically decide our own hours and work place as long as we’re keeping up with our workload.

In theory we can go back into our office but I was in there on Tuesday and most of the space has been taken up by shelving for production samples .

Works fine for my team as everything we use is cloud based so we can work from anywhere with an internet connection. One of my people is planning on moving down to northern England soon so I guess that’ll be the real test of whether it works.

[dinny_g]

Just curious on the few comments about how COVID has introduced hybrid working and this being an opportunity to change where you live etc. We're seeing a strong desire to push employees back to how it was, headlines suggest US is doing the same. Do you think the changes in the way people work in the UK will be permanent enough to change where you live?

Genuinely curious. I think it would be amazing if the world adopted these changes wholesale tbh.

Our place has decided to go to a Hybrid model for at least the next 5 years. We, in effect, lease office space from the parent company (there are many divisions and departments as part of a parent, all sharing finite office space) and have signed up for the next 5 years at 60% occupancy.

I’m hopeful I can swing mornings in the office and afternoons at home but we’ll see how things pan out. I can see a bit of an agreed Rota will be needed because office attendance will be low on Monday Mornings and probably non existent on Fridays if left to choice.

[GG.]

It will be interesting to see how it all falls out. Some firms like Goldman are insisting everyone goes back full time, others like the accountants are going fully remote so I agree there is a wide spectrum. Whether those that are more insistent that people need to be in the office will win out over the long term is yet to be seen.

Equally, with our place, we are going back one to two days from September and 3 from November. There has been what I presume is an intentional silence on what happens after that but I think they're going to get a lot of pushback if they insist everyone needs to be in five days a week.

To be honest, as much as anything else, its that I'm now fully set up at home with desk, dual screens, peripherals, IP Cisco phone, etc. so I can work just as effectively from home. On that basis if I'm very busy and would have had to work until 3am, I can now more feasibly travel home and continue working, or just stay at home that day. Previously I always had the concern about how long it takes to get home in a taxi at 3am (sometimes for three weeks straight at its peak) when the trains have stopped running - clearly if it was 1hr+ by car then that's not feasible. SE London is sub 30mins by comparison. I can hear you all envying the life of a city lawyer right now

[Sundayjumper]

The project I joined in July last year was initially stood up after the first lockdown and has never had a physical "home". I worked on it for a year without ever meeting anyone IRL. Current project is with the same organisation, and still 100% WFH. Although by a weird coincidence one of my colleagues lives literally five mins from me.

OTOH, my BiL is someone important with Invesco in London and has to go back to the office. I think part of the logic there is "we're paying you a large London salary based on London living costs, you need to be showing your face in London".

Which is a factor that doesn't seem to have really kicked in yet - employers must be realising that people like WFH, and that could be leveraged by offering lower pay if people aren't incurring travel time / cost.

[Barry]

We're trialing hybrid working when we do go back, which is starting shortly for some teams but likely new year for me.

They tried remote login but the data we're pushing isn't feasible so they've decided to get dual kit for us! I'll leave my dev-kit at work I expect.

I suspect it'll get messy and we'll slowly drift back to a more office focused working over time, but happy to be wrong. I'll be in 2 office/3 home at first, with no cap on office days, should I find it easier to go in more often.

[Barry]

Which is a factor that doesn't seem to have really kicked in yet - employers must be realising that people like WFH, and that could be leveraged by offering lower pay if people aren't incurring travel time / cost.

I don't understand where this has come from, it's non of your employers business where you choose to live, and what costs that incurs/doesn't. You're paid for the job you do, that should be the end of it. London loading is a fly on that ointment I'll grant you, but as long as you're prepared to be called into the office whenever the company needs you??

[mik]

Which is a factor that doesn't seem to have really kicked in yet - employers must be realising that people like WFH, and that could be leveraged by offering lower pay if people aren't incurring travel time / cost.

I don't understand where this has come from, it's non of your employers business where you choose to live, and what costs that incurs/doesn't. You're paid for the job you do, that should be the end of it. London loading is a fly on that ointment I'll grant you, but as long as you're prepared to be called into the office whenever the company needs you??

Maybe this will be the beginning of the end for the massively Lahndahn-centric setup we have in the UK?

[ZedLeg]

Which is a factor that doesn't seem to have really kicked in yet - employers must be realising that people like WFH, and that could be leveraged by offering lower pay if people aren't incurring travel time / cost.

I don't understand where this has come from, it's non of your employers business where you choose to live, and what costs that incurs/doesn't. You're paid for the job you do, that should be the end of it. London loading is a fly on that ointment I'll grant you, but as long as you're prepared to be called into the office whenever the company needs you??

That's what I've been saying since this argument started coming up. If cost of living/commuting costs are supposed to be part of the consideration for salary then hourly paid workers would get paid from the moment they leave the house.

My work have explicitly said that we're paid for the work we do, not clocking in for a set amount of hours at a desk so I can't see it coming up for us.

[DeskJockey]

We're being "blended". Maximum two days/week in the office but only pre-booked and as required. No option to go to warm a seat (with an approved exceptions policy for those that need it). They've also added a work from almost anywhere globally for 20 days/year with manager approval option.

As my team is strewn all over the country anyway that makes good sense, and we'll do a face-to-face meeting quarterly (roughly).

[Sundayjumper]

Barry & Zed, I think you're coming at it from the wrong direction, that of slightly disgruntled employee I'm not talking about cutting the salaries of existing staff. That is obviously problematic.

Employers certainly do care where people live as (traditionally at least) it's a factor in agreeing their salary in the first place. I would not want to commute more than a couple of miles for £20k/year. Make it £100k/year and it's a different matter.

Or - say you're job hunting and there's two jobs, and for sake of argument let's say they're identical, except one is WFH and the other is office-based an hour from home. If they're the same salary, the WFH is a no-brainer. What if the WFH role pays 10% less ? Or 20% less ? Which one is the better deal ? It's not clear cut.

Or - you're an employer in a niche market and in the past you've needed to pay a premium to attract staff from outside your immediate geographical area. You (probably) don't any more.

It's a supply/demand thing I guess. For roles that are now WFH, your supply - i.e. potential candidates - has been hugely expanded.

IMO you're naive if you think employers aren't already thinking about this.

[Jobbo]

Barry & Zed, I think you're coming at it from the wrong direction, that of slightly disgruntled employee I'm not talking about cutting the salaries of existing staff. That is obviously problematic.

Employers certainly do care where people live as (traditionally at least) it's a factor in agreeing their salary in the first place. I would not want to commute more than a couple of miles for £20k/year. Make it £100k/year and it's a different matter.

Or - say you're job hunting and there's two jobs, and for sake of argument let's say they're identical, except one is WFH and the other is office-based an hour from home. If they're the same salary, the WFH is a no-brainer. What if the WFH role pays 10% less ? Or 20% less ? Which one is the better deal ? It's not clear cut.

Or - you're an employer in a niche market and in the past you've needed to pay a premium to attract staff from outside your immediate geographical area. You (probably) don't any more.

It's a supply/demand thing I guess. For roles that are now WFH, your supply - i.e. potential candidates - has been hugely expanded.

IMO you're naive if you think employers aren't already thinking about this.

Absolutely right - while I've taken on a few people since lockdown they are all based in the office. If I wanted to recruit someone who was home-based, why would I look in the local market? Why not take on someone in a cheaper country? It is very short-sighted to think you're more valuable than someone else to a London employed because you live in the Peak District rather than the Andes.

[ZedLeg]

I guess it depends on the job you're doing, we hire people all over the world as it is. We have offices in 4 countries and staff in at least 6 more. If your salary is fair for the local market then there's not really much to complain about.

[Jobbo]

I don't think it does depend on the job you're doing; it depends whether it's a working from home role or not. If it's not, the employer could quite reasonably ask you to be in the office or at client sites for meetings so you have to be reasonably near. If you are just working from home you run the risk of your role disappearing to someone cheaper elsewhere.

[Barry]

I'm not naive to it, and I've no doubt companies are looking to save money on salaries, but apart from some minor balancing I still feel it shouldn't matter. There are many factors involved of course.