OV9

What the mid pack did was the F1 equivalent to hitting someone at a roundabout who you thought was going to go.

Stupid rules make stupid outcomes. There should just be a simple rule that you cannot accelerate on a restart until you are past a specific point - i.e. the start/finish line, not when the person in front accelerates which has everyone second guessing when to go. Same as the slipstream on some tracks meaning qually is a ridiculous game of bluff as to who goes first.

Hamilton was castigated for it but there is an element of truth that the only reasons those issues haven't been resolved with rule changes is that they (the FIA) think it add to the competitive tension.

At the end of the day, qually laps are about who is quicker over one lap, not who can cheat by getting a slipstream. Equally, restarts after a safety car should be about the resumption of the race safely and not an exercise in gaining an advantage (either for the leader or anyone else).

But to your point about who is faster over a lap, surely that means taking any and all advantage (within the rules) you can get. If you're better at using a slipstream than someone else, then that's you being able to go faster.

Not your innate pace over a lap though is it - just a fluke of circumstance as to whether you happened to be following someone closely or not. To say you could skilfully engineer a slipstream is understating how much is just down to chance (other than perhaps following your team mate) in my opinion.

I must admit that sending everyone out individually to put in laps in isolation would render the whole thing soporific and part of the excitement is how closely together the times are posted with one pipping another to the post, however, there are elements of it they need to address such as people being on flying laps with others dawdling round a couple of meters off the racing line - just dangerous.

Mandating 10 seconds between each car out of the pits and minimum speeds would solve both issues. They'd learn how to adjust to that format.

Reading what the drivers are saying it does appear that the FIA are turning off the safety car lights very late (on the main straights) so we get exactly this sort of slipstream. It’s a bit of a silly rule if the leader is essentially defenceless and allows gaming of the results especially if the safety car lights don’t go off at an exact spot each time.

As Toto puts it in regard to reverse grid races they’re treading a fine line between entertainment like WWE and actual sport.

F1 fans "Oh, it is so boring, it is just a procession"

FIA "OK, here are some changes"

F1 Fans "No, not like that"

I think the standing starts work OK, tyre changes during red flags have robbed us of a few good race finales over the last few years as well. Ultimately, in a series with differing cars and a quali format that puts the faster cars up front, more often than not, you will get a processional race.

I am struggling to think of anyone who has not agreed that massively reducing downforce and the cars reactions to dirty air would allow for closer racing and overtaking and to be fair, behind the Mercs, this season, the racing has been pretty close.

GG. wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:59 am I must admit that sending everyone out individually to put in laps in isolation would render the whole thing soporific

I think the one lap top ten shootout format used by the V8s works pretty well. All the drivers have to give it everything in one lap in isolation and if they screw it up then they start in 10th.

I remember the single lap format that came in in the early 2000s mainly because DC sucked at single lap quali which, as a DC fan, pissed me off.

I think the lower teams liked it as they got full TV coverage over their laps. I cannot see it making it more or less of a spectacle, for me the breathless "such and such is flying in sector 1" doesn't ramp up the tension any more than the delayed gratification of single laps by drivers in reverse order from FP3 or in actual order, giving the later runners the advantage on tracks that rubber in.

The main problem with F1 is probably rose tinted glasses by old people who only recall the one or two races each year that were exciting. I watch a lot of the older races on Sky and even though I assume they try and show decent races, a lot are like car parks around the edge by the end and the best cars lapping most of the field.

We get that today as well, some races are absolute smashers, others are meh. It seems to be imponderables that add the most so trying to legislate in excitement probably won't work.

Marv wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:06 am I imagine that given enough notice that the safety car was coming in, Bottas could have backed everyone up, then could have chosen the right point to race off.

Ta. I was missing the connection to the complaints of the safety car lights going off late. Makes sense now

Lot of talk of reverse grid quali races. Anyone in favour? None of the drivers were in their press conferences.

Also, possibility of Lewis reaching the all time 92 race record set by Micheal S.

Gavin wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:43 am Lot of talk of reverse grid quali races. Anyone in favour? None of the drivers were in their press conferences.

Also, possibility of Lewis reaching the all time 92 race record set by Micheal S.

Don't see the point of reverse grid. Surely you'll just ended up with teams sandbagging to make it easier. Fastest at the front, second behind, etc.

Surely you need two races from each quali to make reverse grid work? One reverse and one not?

Rich B wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:37 am Surely you need two races from each quali to make reverse grid work? One reverse and one not?

Yes. It'll be Sochi mess. Just keep it like it is.

Or do it like F2. Single quali for main race and top 8 then reverse grid for the sprint.

It’s stupid though, I understand it in a feeder series - if you screw up a race then it gives you a second chance and works in touring cars too as the cars can actually overtake by bumping each other. Wouldn’t want to see it in F1 plus it would make these long standing records meaningless.

Rich B wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:37 am Surely you need two races from each quali to make reverse grid work? One reverse and one not?

I believe the proposal is that the reverse grid race is a sprint race which replaces quali, the grid order for the sprint race are the championship positions in reverse and the result of the sprint determines starting position for the actual race.

It would be more interesting, but also too much of a gimmick.

Pete_ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:20 am

Rich B wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:37 am Surely you need two races from each quali to make reverse grid work? One reverse and one not?

The proposal is that the reverse grid race is a sprint race which replaces quali, the grid order for the sprint race are the championship positions in reverse and the result of the sprint determines starting position for the actual race.

sounds crap. There's no way you could get from the very back to the front in a sprint race.

We've seen how ruthless F1 teams are at getting the best from the rules over the years - this sort of crap would just it's lead to teams finding the "best Odds" mid spot and sandbagging to get it.

They seem to love George Russell

Prepare for the usual eternal wait for rain which will only come once the session ends...

Oooh exciting

I’m enjoying Karun today, basically politely telling Croft that he’s an idiot by correcting him every minute. Pointing out that the amazon graphics are pure shite