OV9

Spotted a set of forged Audi alloys, a mere 16in (215/55/16 tyres), with tyres they will be approx 25% lighter than 17in wheels (235/45/17 tyres) which I am also looking at.
I am pondering what the pros and cons of each would be on real world roads, I think it boils down to lighter un-sprung mass vs lower profile (with a slight grip advantage from wider wheel), would differences be marginal or significant, one of the few things in terms of car tuning I have no experience of (mainly because I favour standard looks and styling).

Would they fit over your breaks? And taller sidewall = more “sproing” in all responses, which might offset any advantages offered by reduced unsprung weight?

Very difficult one to assess without actually trying....

mik wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:42 am Would they fit over your breaks? And taller sidewall = more “sproing” in all responses, which might offset any advantages offered by reduced unsprung weight?

Very difficult one to assess without actually trying....

Yes they will fit - currently have 16 in wheels on over my 320mm discs.
I tried searching on google, but it does not come up with anything useful on this specific subject (I can find lighter vs heavier and lower vs higher profile, but nothing that intersects).

NGRhodes wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:58 am

mik wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:42 am Would they fit over your breaks? And taller sidewall = more “sproing” in all responses, which might offset any advantages offered by reduced unsprung weight?

Very difficult one to assess without actually trying....

Yes they will fit - currently have 16 in wheels on over my 320mm discs.
I tried searching on google, but it does not come up with anything useful on this specific subject (I can find lighter vs heavier and lower vs higher profile, but nothing that intersects).

What car? My 2010 Cooper S was massively improved stepping down from the optional 17s to 16s (both non-runflat). The extra sidewall eliminated the harsh edge to the ride and any loss in ultimate grip was negated by a more fun drive.

You also need to factor in the benefit of being able to join @Marv ’s small wheel appreciation society.

Jimexpl wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:25 pm

NGRhodes wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:58 am

mik wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:42 am Would they fit over your breaks? And taller sidewall = more “sproing” in all responses, which might offset any advantages offered by reduced unsprung weight?

Very difficult one to assess without actually trying....

Yes they will fit - currently have 16 in wheels on over my 320mm discs.
I tried searching on google, but it does not come up with anything useful on this specific subject (I can find lighter vs heavier and lower vs higher profile, but nothing that intersects).

What car? My 2010 Cooper S was massively improved stepping down from the optional 17s to 16s (both non-runflat). The extra sidewall eliminated the harsh edge to the ride and any loss in ultimate grip was negated by a more fun drive.

2005 A4 with a V6 TDi engine - its got the standard rather than sports suspension (a deliberate choice as the S-line suspension is harsh), I'd consider it warm rather than hot in terms of performance and handling.

mik wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:29 pm You also need to factor in the benefit of being able to join @Marv ’s small wheel appreciation society.

Does that confer any tangible performance increase or is it for the cosy comfort of membership and street cred?

I haven’t been allowed in @DeskJockey and I understand the first rule of SWAS is you don’t talk about Fight Club. Or something like that anyway.

mik wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:50 pm I haven’t been allowed in @DeskJockey and I understand the first rule of SWAS is you don’t talk about Fight Club. Or something like that anyway.

@Marv why isn't Mik allowed in? Who else would be the obvious candidate for the position chief tyre painter?

Could always setup the SSWA - Society of Small Wheel Appreciation

I wasn’t allowed in as we didn’t own a suitably small-wheeled vehicle. And we still don’t.

I'm still contemplating some Audi pepperpots for the Fabia for light weight. I think they'll be lighter than the Small Wheel Appreciation Society Approved 14" Compomotives.

Might be better handling for auto solos with less unsprung mass. Maybe.

A few people on the Swift Facebook group talk about going down to 15" wheels for trackdays, from standard 16s. I assume for weight saving. Not sure if they keep the same profile tyres when moving down to 15s, I can't imagine they'd go higher profile for track driving.

Switch my 17" wheels on the Up for 16" wheels. They're only slightly lighter, but with the addition of a bigger sidewall it's made a massive different to how it rides...much better for the daily, pot-ridden roads.

Not going to pretend I prefer the look...but...I'm old now. Ridin' on 20's is behind me.

I replaced the cheap 17" Cup 1 clones on the 928 with some original 16" S4 wheels that are lighter and look better (IMO). They've improved the ride noticeably and although there's a smaller selection of tyres available, as I've fitted a brand new set, that's not going to present a problem for a few years yet. I figured Porsche's engineers know a damn sight more about these things than I do, so I'll defer to their better judgement.

Matty wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:44 pm Not going to pretend I prefer the look...but...I'm old now. Ridin' on 20's is behind me.

You're never too old for 20's.

20’s aren’t that big anymore

Anything in sport trim is on 20’s now and SUV’s seem to be 21/22.

If anything some cars have grown so much they still look under wheeled with 21” wheels.

I think the 18s on my car are big, there's quite a few cars running with brakes that size these days.

I feel old

I’m torn on the issue.

On the one hand smaller wheels / higher profile tyres often ride noticeably better and often feel more nimble, however I can’t stand the slop and sponginess you get as a taller sidewall rolls over.

Our e46 on se suspension was much nicer to drive on 17s than the 18s it came on, however my far from standard e36 felt far more comfortable and direct on the 18s. So much so the mrs asked ( without prompting ) if I’d changed anything on the suspension as it rode so much better.

Well this is not going as planned.
Out of 3 people selling the 16in wheels I'm interested in, 2 won't respond to questions, one is further away than the listing says (listed as York, but actually Malton), which is annoying as the guy only wants £50 for a set of 4.

Mito Man wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:34 pm 20’s aren’t that big anymore

Anything in sport trim is on 20’s now and SUV’s seem to be 21/22.

If anything some cars have grown so much they still look under wheeled with 21” wheels.

I was looking at an Audi Q8 today - it was on the small alloys, which turned out to be 21”s