OV9

Fucked, apparently. So selling off loads of their tat.

https://www.gazetteherald.co.uk/news/18 ... istration/

I did hear they'd been fucking people about on money for sales and things, but without evidence of it I was a bit dubious. Seems those rumours may not have been far off the mark.

Auction details here

https://onlinesales.walkersingleton.co. ... log/id/158

I saw something a while back (might even have been in evo...); not as much info as here, and no auction then either. Time to peruse the list...

Some scraping of the 911UK forums (Where there are a few threads - here's just one - suggest north of £6m of debt.

ponders
https://onlinesales.walkersingleton.co. ... 2Fid%2F158

Bizarre selection of cars!

I am surprised they lasted that long, the turnover of cars with preposterous prices was, erm glacial..

That mk4 golf race car must have been for sale for a decade +

They ceased trading in February, apparently, though they had been in the hands of administrators for a while before that: https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/loc ... n-17826047

And there have been Sale or Return stories of woe for longer: http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=134633

Going a bit off topic from the potentially interesting distressed sale stock, Sale or Return is a bad idea from both a seller's and a buyer's point of view. Buyer doesn't get the usual consumer protections even if they buy from a dealer, provided the fact that they're selling for a private owner is disclosed. Seller sees someone get good title to their car but potentially have an unsecured claim if the dealer goes bust. It's happened before, it will happen again.

Jobbo, am I reading that correctly, are you saying if the dealer goes bust the seller could end up without their car in a sale or return scenario?

Orange Cola wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 1:36 pm Jobbo, am I reading that correctly, are you saying if the dealer goes bust the seller could end up without their car in a sale or return scenario?

Having read through a couple of the threads on there, that seems to have happened to a few people (before they went bust - I suspect Jobbo is thinking of the same case in the thread I'm thinking of) - and going to the polis won't help as the dealer effectively owns the car at that stage.

If you have a skim through the threads on there, there are some proper horror stories.

What?! That’s a bit “here, have my car paperwork and all, hope you give me some cash for it some day”

Orange Cola wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 1:36 pm Jobbo, am I reading that correctly, are you saying if the dealer goes bust the seller could end up without their car in a sale or return scenario?

Yes, absolutely that. If the buyer of your Sale or Return vehicle pays the dealer in good faith, the car is sold to them and there's no comeback against them. If the dealer then doesn't pay that money to you (for instance, if they have cashflow problems) then you have no car and no money; your only claim is against the dealer. It seems pretty common that car dealers become insolvent; there are three Porsche specialists in Yorkshire in the last year alone who have done so

Beany, I am thinking of a particular incident but it's not at all uncommon and I'm not giving specific advice, just talking generally. SoR is a bad idea.

Beany wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 1:46 pm going to the polis won't help as the dealer effectively owns the car at that stage.

It's not a criminal offence to become insolvent, but the dealer never owns your car - the new buyer does once they've paid the dealer for it though.

Fair fair Jobbo

Another cracker.
Customer reports buying 'immaculate, original and fully restored' 911S 2.4S for £235k

Customer then reports getting it inspected, turns out that describing it as triggers broom wouldn't be wildly inaccurate.

Nasty

SoR is crazy, but it's how a lot of classic dealers work, and the collectors that flip their cars use it to 'hopefully' maximise returns.

The first SoR that I brought in to the business that I worked for was an F40, and it seemed crazy to me that I took the keys and all documentation to what was a £350k car at the time and handed back a photocopied SoR agreement with my signature on!

Beany wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 2:03 pm Fair fair Jobbo

Another cracker.
Customer reports buying 'immaculate, original and fully restored' 911S 2.4S for £235k

Customer then reports getting it inspected, turns out that describing it as triggers broom wouldn't be wildly inaccurate.

Nasty

Without reading the thread, did they fork over £235k BEFORE getting inspected?!

Beany wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 2:03 pm Fair fair Jobbo

Another cracker.
Customer reports buying 'immaculate, original and fully restored' 911S 2.4S for £235k

Customer then reports getting it inspected, turns out that describing it as triggers broom wouldn't be wildly inaccurate.

Nasty

Funnily enough I was just reading that - particularly the report on the condition of the car. It's a real eye-opener.

Rev, he bought it over the phone on the basis of Specialist Cars of Malton's description.

Jobbo wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 1:29 pm Going a bit off topic from the potentially interesting distressed sale stock, Sale or Return is a bad idea from both a seller's and a buyer's point of view. Buyer doesn't get the usual consumer protections even if they buy from a dealer, provided the fact that they're selling for a private owner is disclosed. Seller sees someone get good title to their car but potentially have an unsecured claim if the dealer goes bust. It's happened before, it will happen again.

Its an interesting one that.

Not entirely my area of law, but I would have expected (subject to specific terms agreed between the dealer and the owner of the car - which may very well be how these things work) that the dealer would be selling the car as the agent and fiduciary of the owner. Any proceeds from that sale would be subject to a proprietary interest in favour of the seller (potentially via a constructive trust?).

It may be of little help if there are no funds left at all to meet claims but I'd be surprised (again, subject to T's & C's) if the seller had no better claim than an unsecured creditor to his pro rata share of the liquidation proceeds of the insolvent business.

Maybe there is case law coming to the opposite conclusion?

Jesus

Jobbo wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 2:18 pm

Beany wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 2:03 pm Fair fair Jobbo

Another cracker.
Customer reports buying 'immaculate, original and fully restored' 911S 2.4S for £235k

Customer then reports getting it inspected, turns out that describing it as triggers broom wouldn't be wildly inaccurate.

Nasty

Funnily enough I was just reading that - particularly the report on the condition of the car. It's a real eye-opener.

Rev, he bought it over the phone on the basis of Specialist Cars of Malton's description.

Yeh I had read that before - IIRC it was re-posted on twitter by a Barrister specialising in motoring law. Seems SCM was missing only an 'A' in their name

NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 2:17 pm

Beany wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 2:03 pm Fair fair Jobbo

Another cracker.
Customer reports buying 'immaculate, original and fully restored' 911S 2.4S for £235k

Customer then reports getting it inspected, turns out that describing it as triggers broom wouldn't be wildly inaccurate.

Nasty

Without reading the thread, did they fork over £235k BEFORE getting inspected?!

That was a painful read. It’s hard to know who to trust when buying a car these days and there’s so many cracks a buyer can fall through even if they are careful.

Well that looked to be a pretty comprehensive (post-purchase) inspection report