OV9

It’s been interesting to see people who were happy to fuck the economy for a few years to get brexit done now say that it should be protected at the expense of people’s lives.

ZedLeg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:31 am It’s been interesting to see people who were happy to fuck the economy for a few years to get brexit done now say that it should be protected at the expense of people’s lives.

There was no evidence that brexit was going to ruin the economy.

There is also no evidence at present that deliberately wrecking our economy because of a virus that is already widespread is going to save lives.

There is however ample evidence from history that deliberately wrecking our economy will cost lives.

My point was more that there were people saying that if the economy suffers because of brexit they were ok with it that are now saying that keeping the economy up is more important than protecting people vulnerable to the virus.

ZedLeg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:33 am My point was more that there were people saying that if the economy suffers because of brexit they were ok with it that are now saying that keeping the economy up is more important than protecting people vulnerable to the virus.

Is there a long term strategy for protecting the vulnerable? I've not seen one.

I think currently we're close to an additional 1,000,000 new applications for universal credit. While the u.k death rate is still running below the five year average.

I hope that I'm very wrong, it certainly wouldn't be the first time, but to me at the moment this looks like mass hysteria. Until we know just how widespread this virus is and how many people have actually died from it, rather than with it, we'll not not know for sure. Maybe it just hasn't hit close to home for me yet and I'll change my tune. We'll see..

I hope that you're enjoying this 30 day free trial of life in a communist state though mate

If it was really a communist state, we would’ve taxed shitehawks like Tim Martin til their pips squeaked to cover the cost of looking after the staff they fired .

I have been enjoying that meme too though. An emergency situation shows up how ill suited capitalism is for running a society and conservative knuckleheads go “welcome to communism lads”

In the middle of this massive global crisis, the media continue to clearly demonstrate that they are not here to report facts, but instead exist to sell us stories.

ZedLeg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:57 am If it was really a communist state, we would’ve taxed shitehawks like Tim Martin til their pips squeaked to cover the cost of looking after the staff they fired .

I have been enjoying that meme too though. An emergency situation shows up how ill suited capitalism is for running a society and conservative knuckleheads go “welcome to communism lads”

Capitalism can't run a society, that's down to people and individual responsibility. Capitalism just makes it more likely that we'll have the means to support those that can't support themselves if society chooses to do so.

You ever looked at what generally happens to the unproductive in a communist state?.

Don't mind me though. I'm just disgusted with the way that everyone is doing exactly what they're told to. Apart from Jobson obvs.

I wouldn’t know, there’s never been a successful communist state.

I’m not a communist btw, I’m a socialist or according to a recent political alignment thing I did an eco Marxist

Flu kills around 600 people a year in the UK. COVID19 has killed the same number per week, on average. It killed nearly the annual flu death toll in one day yesterday. If the social distancing works and the daily number of deaths stops going up by the end of this week, I still don't think you can say it was hysteria. It's not hard to see what the effects would have been if the current measures hadn't been taken; it's just a shame they didn't start sooner.

I only drove about 140 miles yesterday, BTW, and will do the same today. SORNing is for wimps.

Jobbo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:43 am Flu kills around 600 people a year in the UK. COVID19 has killed the same number per week, on average. It killed nearly the annual flu death toll in one day yesterday. If the social distancing works and the daily number of deaths stops going up by the end of this week, I still don't think you can say it was hysteria. It's not hard to see what the effects would have been if the current measures hadn't been taken; it's just a shame they didn't start sooner.

I only drove about 140 miles yesterday, BTW, and will do the same today. SORNing is for wimps.

You're right that it's serious, and clearly can't be compared to flu, but I think the behaviour of many has still been excessive to the point of hysteria.

It's also difficult to judge whether or not it's a shame it didn't start sooner IMO. It's a short, medium and long term problem. Isolation only solves the short term problem, to me the medium term solution is having a level of immunity in the general populace and the long term solution is immunisation.

The only way a very early lockdown would have worked would have been to keep it going until the virus stopped lapping the world and/or immunisation is available. So probably more than a year, so not realistically viable.

I say this with a 4 year old niece who went into a hospital with breathing difficulties and was put on a ventilator over night.

Jobbo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:43 am Flu kills around 600 people a year in the UK. COVID19 has killed the same number per week, on average. It killed nearly the annual flu death toll in one day yesterday. If the social distancing works and the daily number of deaths stops going up by the end of this week, I still don't think you can say it was hysteria. It's not hard to see what the effects would have been if the current measures hadn't been taken; it's just a shame they didn't start sooner.

I only drove about 140 miles yesterday, BTW, and will do the same today. SORNing is for wimps.

Flu alone yes. However it contributes to the deaths of many, many more. According to ONS figures when they got the vaccine wrong in 17/18 it greatly contributed to an additional 49,000 deaths in the uk. The five year moving average for excess winter deaths in the uk is 35k. Old and sick people dying of flu doesn't make headlines though.

We don't know how many people are dying from just COVID-19 yet. If we ever will who knows?. But just for example, if it is as widespread amongst the population as many estimate, then millions have it or have had it. All those currently dying of heart failure, pneumonia and everything up to sudden adult death syndrome who test positive for COVID-19 are having it mentioned on the death cert. As I understand it, that can even happen if the GP suspects it strongly to be the case.

Oh and Jobson. STAY AT HOME - SAVE LIVES

The BIL had a cough / fever last week, he had a VC with a doctor who heard his cough and said it's definitely not COVID-19. Now they went into the hospital with the little one and the doctor there was saying that it could well have been and probably was. I think what's clear is that the symptoms manifest in various different ways.

Basically a good chance they've all had it, not ideal as my sister is heavily pregnant.

Lots of information and numbers out there which don’t make sense.
I do hope that China get a proper bollocking and governments implement tax breaks and initiatives to move manufacturing back to the West. One thing that is clear is that if they didn’t cover it up so much and acted quicker the rest of the world would have had more time to respond and would have taken it more seriously from the beginning so we wouldn’t have all these essential shortages.
Look at China’s graph and numbers now - it’s laughably perfect and stupidly conservative.

evostick wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:08 am Oh and Jobson. STAY AT HOME - SAVE LIVES

Yeah, it says that on the motorway gantry messages too

Mito Man wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:27 am Lots of information and numbers out there which don’t make sense.
I do hope that China get a proper bollocking and governments implement tax breaks and initiatives to move manufacturing back to the West. One thing that is clear is that if they didn’t cover it up so much and acted quicker the rest of the world would have had more time to respond and would have taken it more seriously from the beginning so we wouldn’t have all these essential shortages.
Look at China’s graph and numbers now - it’s laughably perfect and stupidly conservative.

wtf? Whether or not China covered it up, we all knew about it months and months ago and it hasn't helped us formulate any plan beyond the usual BS lies and soundbites from De Pfeffel and Co.

You sound like you are just regurgitating the Tory spin and misdirection.

Gavin wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:51 am

Mito Man wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:27 am Lots of information and numbers out there which don’t make sense.
I do hope that China get a proper bollocking and governments implement tax breaks and initiatives to move manufacturing back to the West. One thing that is clear is that if they didn’t cover it up so much and acted quicker the rest of the world would have had more time to respond and would have taken it more seriously from the beginning so we wouldn’t have all these essential shortages.
Look at China’s graph and numbers now - it’s laughably perfect and stupidly conservative.

wtf? Whether or not China covered it up, we all knew about it months and months ago and it hasn't helped us formulate any plan beyond the usual BS lies and soundbites from De Pfeffel and Co.

You sound like you are just regurgitating the Tory spin and misdirection.

Whereas you sound like the pinnacle of balanced consideration.

They didn’t really act until the situation in Italy started to unfold - probably because they relied on the figures from China which wasn’t so bad.
The death rate and number of people needing ventilators was much greater than expected once it got closer to home. It was only then that they started adding hospitals and asking for home made ventilators. This only started on March 15.

duncs500 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:57 am

Gavin wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:51 am

Mito Man wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:27 am Lots of information and numbers out there which don’t make sense.
I do hope that China get a proper bollocking and governments implement tax breaks and initiatives to move manufacturing back to the West. One thing that is clear is that if they didn’t cover it up so much and acted quicker the rest of the world would have had more time to respond and would have taken it more seriously from the beginning so we wouldn’t have all these essential shortages.
Look at China’s graph and numbers now - it’s laughably perfect and stupidly conservative.

wtf? Whether or not China covered it up, we all knew about it months and months ago and it hasn't helped us formulate any plan beyond the usual BS lies and soundbites from De Pfeffel and Co.

You sound like you are just regurgitating the Tory spin and misdirection.

Whereas you sound like the pinnacle of balanced consideration.

At least he didn't shoehorne in Tory privatisation of the NHS this time.

Of course, we'd have been so much better prepared with Jeremy and his clown posse in charge.

Hardly the time to do politics as tempting as it may be.

Broccers wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:09 am Hardly the time to do politics as tempting as it may be.

Is it not? Politics could be the answer.

Let's have a referendum on COVID-19.

Option 1: Stay in

Option 2: Leave the house

Long live the will of the people

There's a very wrong part of me that would dearly love to see Jeremy Corbyn at the podium going on about how we should be grateful to our friends from China before Dianne Abbot starts stuttering about the daily death rate ''...today 15 people have died from the virus..um...no 15 million...give me a minute...um...six...erm hundred..and..um forty...two. Yes that's it..four hundred and sixty two. Of course these numbers are directly attributable to tory cuts in the nhs'.

It'd be a laugh at least.