Coronavirus

[Rich B]

Yeh but then you'd stay locked down forever. Totally disproportionate to lock down until its essentially been eradicated.

Whilst I don't agree with Broccers that it's a conspiracy we'd then have gone from:

Lockdown to stop ICUs overflowing ---> lockdown until we have infections under control ----> lockdown until everyone at risk of dying is vaccinated -----> lockdown until everyone is vaccinated -----> lockdown until there is so little circulation that new variants wont arise (which is nonsense anyway as they will arise elsewhere and be imported sooner or later).

The goalposts have been moved so many times I don't know where they are anymore.

no, we are still on lockdown (or the eases restriction lockdown as clearly discussed and publicised) until 21st June.

[Broccers]

Yeh but then you'd stay locked down forever. Totally disproportionate to lock down until its essentially been eradicated.

Whilst I don't agree with Broccers that it's a conspiracy we'd then have gone from:

Lockdown to stop ICUs overflowing ---> lockdown until we have infections under control ----> lockdown until everyone at risk of dying is vaccinated -----> lockdown until everyone is vaccinated -----> lockdown until there is so little circulation that new variants wont arise (which is nonsense anyway as they will arise elsewhere and be imported sooner or later).

The goalposts have been moved so many times I don't know where they are anymore.

no, we are still on lockdown until 21st June.

We arent tho, I am going on holiday on Sunday and you can stay in hotels next week. Lockdown is staying at home.... to save lives and the nhs etc

The only things in place after monday are;
Step 4 - not before 21 June
Social contact
By Step 4 which will take place no earlier than 21 June, the government hopes to be in a position to remove all legal limits on social contact.

Business, activities and events
We hope to reopen remaining premises, including nightclubs, and ease the restrictions on large events and performances that apply in Step 3. This will be subject to the results of a scientific Events Research Programme to test the outcome of certain pilot events through the spring and summer, where we will trial the use of testing and other techniques to cut the risk of infection. The same Events Research Programme will guide decisions on whether all limits can be removed on weddings and other life events.

As we move through each of these phases in the roadmap, we must all remember that COVID-19 remains a part of our lives. We are going to have to keep living our lives differently to keep ourselves and others safe. We must carry on with ‘hands, face, space’. Comply with the COVID-Secure measures that remain in place. Meet outdoors when we can and keep letting fresh air in. Get tested when needed. Get vaccinated when offered. If we all continue to play our part, we will be that bit closer to a future that is more familiar.

[GG.]

Yeh but then you'd stay locked down forever. Totally disproportionate to lock down until its essentially been eradicated.

Whilst I don't agree with Broccers that it's a conspiracy we'd then have gone from:

Lockdown to stop ICUs overflowing ---> lockdown until we have infections under control ----> lockdown until everyone at risk of dying is vaccinated -----> lockdown until everyone is vaccinated -----> lockdown until there is so little circulation that new variants wont arise (which is nonsense anyway as they will arise elsewhere and be imported sooner or later).

The goalposts have been moved so many times I don't know where they are anymore.

no, we are still on lockdown (or the eases restriction lockdown as clearly discussed and publicised) until 21st June.

Look I know you're digging in with this argument as a bulwark against Broccers' suggestion this is all rigged but you're simply referring to the last time the goalposts were moved earlier this year.

That even this final set of dates is coherent is fatally undermined by the 'data not dates' utterances. Which clearly were meant to mean 'longer but never shorter' which makes no sense in the context of trying to protect people as deaths have now all but stopped.

What we're clearly in now, whether Boris says it or not is total disease suppression, a rationale which was never debated and which is hidden within the "we are sticking to the original plan/dates". If the 21st does get delayed then even this 'we're sticking with the dates' argument falls away.

Not that I want him to move this to prove a point - I'm hoping he as the guts to fight off those who would attack him by re-opening on the 21st as planned. This period of remaining in lockdown despite no-one being seriously ill from it is building political immunity, not viral immunity!

[ZedLeg]

I'm sure you won't get arrested for it but it broke the terms of service for twitter.

Nobody banned anything, put the pearls down

CANCEL CULTURE

I look forward to Lee Hurst speaking at the Oxford Union once this new legislation goes through. Or maybe not because he's a talentless has-been.

The problem is - and this is where it becomes intensely political - is would the tweet have been taken down if the same things had been said about someone who wasn't a left of centre environmentalist?

Look I see the safeguarding element, etc. if she was still 15 years old, but she isn't - she's 18 - so where do you draw the line at a joke not being 'safe'. Will she still be seen as beyond satire at 20, 24?

I would say making a gross sex joke about someone because they've just turned 18 would count as harassment.

Hard to say what it was without knowing the algorithms twitter use to arbitrate complaints. I'd be surprised if an actual person looked at the tweet before the suspension happened though.

[GG.]

I would say making a gross sex joke about someone because they've just turned 18 would count as harassment.

Then you are part of the problem I'm afraid. You, or Greta, don't have the right to be protected or have a service provider censor content to remove a joke that is not harassment within the meaning of the law (which this is not).

If you go down that route who makes the call? Is the moderator vetted for political neutrality? You've basically just made the whole process totally subjective.

[Explosive Newt]

Lock down earlier = shorter lock down.

Just the government has always been shy about pulling the trigger.

[GG.]

A bit of an oversimplification of what we're discussing. Its not about long or short but what the aim of the lockdown is. Irrespective of its length, it should now have been lifted as any aim of protecting life or stopping widespread serious disease has been achieved.

[Rich B]

Yeh but then you'd stay locked down forever. Totally disproportionate to lock down until its essentially been eradicated.

Whilst I don't agree with Broccers that it's a conspiracy we'd then have gone from:

Lockdown to stop ICUs overflowing ---> lockdown until we have infections under control ----> lockdown until everyone at risk of dying is vaccinated -----> lockdown until everyone is vaccinated -----> lockdown until there is so little circulation that new variants wont arise (which is nonsense anyway as they will arise elsewhere and be imported sooner or later).

The goalposts have been moved so many times I don't know where they are anymore.

no, we are still on lockdown (or the eases restriction lockdown as clearly discussed and publicised) until 21st June.

Look I know you're digging in with this argument as a bulwark against Broccers' suggestion this is all rigged but you're simply referring to the last time the goalposts were moved earlier this year.

That even this final set of dates is coherent is fatally undermined by the 'data not dates' utterances. Which clearly were meant to mean 'longer but never shorter' which makes no sense in the context of trying to protect people as deaths have now all but stopped.

What we're clearly in now, whether Boris says it or not is total disease suppression, a rationale which was never debated and which is hidden within the "we are sticking to the original plan/dates". If the 21st does get delayed then even this 'we're sticking with the dates' argument falls away.

Not that I want him to move this to prove a point - I'm hoping he as the guts to fight off those who would attack him by re-opening on the 21st as planned. This period of remaining in lockdown despite no-one being seriously ill from it is building political immunity, not viral immunity!

You're arguing "what ifs".

[Swervin_Mervin]

Probably not worth getting worked up about though really is it? I mean, there are two Twitter bannees that post amongst us. One of them even went as far as inciting randomchance happenings of violence from inanimate object against innocent peoples' knees.

[ZedLeg]

I would say making a gross sex joke about someone because they've just turned 18 would count as harassment.

Then you are part of the problem I'm afraid. You, or Greta, don't have the right to be protected or have a service provider censor content to remove a joke that is not harassment within the meaning of the law (which this is not).

The problem here is the same as any time this discussion comes up, twitter isn't a free space.

If someone told a joke like this in public, they might get someone calling them an arsehole but you wouldn't expect the police to show up.

If someone told the joke in front of an audience at a comedy club and people complained, it's up to the club owner what the course of action is. Could be that the comedian wouldn't be asked back.

See the difference?

[GG.]

no, we are still on lockdown (or the eases restriction lockdown as clearly discussed and publicised) until 21st June.

Look I know you're digging in with this argument as a bulwark against Broccers' suggestion this is all rigged but you're simply referring to the last time the goalposts were moved earlier this year.

That even this final set of dates is coherent is fatally undermined by the 'data not dates' utterances. Which clearly were meant to mean 'longer but never shorter' which makes no sense in the context of trying to protect people as deaths have now all but stopped.

What we're clearly in now, whether Boris says it or not is total disease suppression, a rationale which was never debated and which is hidden within the "we are sticking to the original plan/dates". If the 21st does get delayed then even this 'we're sticking with the dates' argument falls away.

Not that I want him to move this to prove a point - I'm hoping he as the guts to fight off those who would attack him by re-opening on the 21st as planned. This period of remaining in lockdown despite no-one being seriously ill from it is building political immunity, not viral immunity!

You're arguing "what ifs".

The fact that the initial rationale for lockdown has moved in the way highlighted by my above post are not what ifs.

The what if centres around the possibility of moving the dates out because of an Indian variant which is unproven to make anyone vaccinated serious ill. This is widely being discussed in the press so fair game for a discussion of 'what if'!

[GG.]

I would say making a gross sex joke about someone because they've just turned 18 would count as harassment.

Then you are part of the problem I'm afraid. You, or Greta, don't have the right to be protected or have a service provider censor content to remove a joke that is not harassment within the meaning of the law (which this is not).

The problem here is the same as any time this discussion comes up, twitter isn't a free space.

If someone told a joke like this in public, they might get someone calling them an arsehole but you wouldn't expect the police to show up.

If someone told the joke in front of an audience at a comedy club and people complained, it's up to the club owner what the course of action is. Could be that the comedian wouldn't be asked back.

See the difference?

But the whole point is Twitter IS supposed to be a free space within the confines of laws as to libel and harassment. It is a bare publisher and not an editor of content.

This was not libel or harassment for which they would need to be concerned with as a legal publisher and was banned because someone didn't 'like it'. Twitter then becomes a space where you can only say things which are 'inoffensive' in someones personal and subjective judgement.

[V8Granite]

I’ve seen Memes and other people make far worse comments on Greta.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

As has been repeatedly shown throughout the history of the internet, if you give people an online space with no moderation it quickly becomes a cesspit.

I think pretty much all social media moderation is automated until you get to the point of appeal. To act like there's some beret wearing leftist with a vendetta against free speech banning sad old comedians is silly. They want as many people as possible to use their site as that's how they get paid. Arbitrarily banning people because of their politics isn't going to do that but neither is letting it turn into a 70's miners club comedy night.

[ZedLeg]

In actual covid related news, just got a text from the GP surgery asking me to book a test appointment as there's been a spike in infections in my area.

Are they as bad as people say they are?

[Broccers]

Only the second one.

[Simon]

On the Indian variant, if we really are 'data not dates', then look at the excellent John Burn-Murdoch on Twitter - the FT's data science guy. He showed that an old people's home who all got infected with the Indian variant suffered 0 deaths or serious illness because of the vaccine. Or look at the hospitals in India where the vaccine is protecting the staff, because the .2 variant doesn't actually have the more nasty E484K mutation that the SA variant has (and the Indian .1 variant also, but that's not really over here either).

[Jobbo]

Only the second one.

Or the first one, if it affects you that way.

Or neither if they don't.

Evidence based science, wonderful isn't it. I take it you didn't suffer a blood clot, Broccers?

[Beany]

Just as an aside, being banned from Twitter isn't being censored, and anyone who thinks it is needs to get their head out of thier arse.

I'm banned from Twitter and I don't give a fuck. I'm certainly not mewling about being 'cancelled'.

[jamcg]

In actual covid related news, just got a text from the GP surgery asking me to book a test appointment as there's been a spike in infections in my area.

Are they as bad as people say they are?

Tickle your tonsils and then stick it up your nostril now, no more back of the throat via the nose any more. We had surge testing here in March for SA variant and only got sent for a lateral flow test which you can pick up from your pharmacy and diy anyway.