OV9

I’m enjoying seeing the posts from people who have actually decided to run one as I’m intrigued by them. There’s no doubt they’ve come a long way in the short time they been available and I’d like to think I could consider one as a next car. I look at local multi story car parks and of the hundreds of spaces there are generally 2 charging points. The local retail parks don’t have any. There is a service station 40 miles away that has a bank of 5 charging points, I thought they were universal but Harry’s video on the Jag proved otherwise. Surely to cope with the demand the government are trying to create they either have make EVs sold in the Uk have a standard charge point or we are going to end up with huge EV charging areas with rows for individual makes.

Is there an upcoming advance in battery tech that will deliver a realistic range? I regularly go to Leeds and back, 1/4 of a tank in the Merc but touch and go in most current EVs and, guess what, no charging points at my destination. I’ve read about putting wireless churching in road surfaces but is that only for future vehicles?

Don’t get me wrong, this is not an attack on EVs, if the technology was available I’d have one tomorrow I just think that there needs to be a huge discussion with all parties involved to work out the way forward and it needs to happen quickly if the government want to end ICE sales in 15 years.

As an aside, most EVs have pretty quick acceleration, what happens when motorbikes become EVs, the front wheels will never see the tarmac!

EV range will most likely be solved in two ways; batteries for short and medium journeys, hydrogen for medium and long journeys. Batteries will most likely remain the reserve of premium cars.

Leeds to Saltburn is 75 miles according to Google Maps. So 150 mile round trip. That’s only difficult for the EVs intended as city cars; it wouldn’t be a problem for even the smallest capacity Teslas.

A friend of mine’s wife has a company Jag I-Pace. He borrows it time take his son to university in Nottingham, about 70 miles each way. He says he drives it like he stole it (someone else’s company car, why not!) and never tries to maximise the range; quite the contrary because he likes the instant acceleration. He tells me it uses little more than half the battery doing that return journey.

Buy an EV that’s right for your use and it’s already not a problem.

I’ll buy a used I Pace next then, need 4 doors and space for snowboards!

I'd have bought an e-UP, I only do 30-40 miles a day so it's pretty much perfect, but at £20k, it's significantly more than the £13.5k of the GTi - if you even consider them comparable, as it's more in line with the standard models, so it's £10k more.

At what point do you consider the cheaper fuel costs to offset the increased initial price? I suppose, in this day and age, it's more likely that you'll look at the PCP/Lease, rather than the outright cost. So, based on 9+36, 10k/miles, the e-UP would cost you £14,6000 (yikes). The Move Up would cost £7000 over the same term....so that's £7600 difference, which means I'd need to save £2500 a year in fuel bills just to break even over then increased initial cost.

FWIW, 10k is £1150 in fuel based on 50mpg, so you wouldn't even be able to claw back the increased rental before you even took into account the cost of the leccy...

Jobbo wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:13 pm Leeds to Saltburn is 75 miles according to Google Maps. So 150 mile round trip. That’s only difficult for the EVs intended as city cars; it wouldn’t be a problem for even the smallest capacity Teslas.

A friend of mine’s wife has a company Jag I-Pace. He borrows it time take his son to university in Nottingham, about 70 miles each way. He says he drives it like he stole it (someone else’s company car, why not!) and never tries to maximise the range; quite the contrary because he likes the instant acceleration. He tells me it uses little more than half the battery doing that return journey.

Buy an EV that’s right for your use and it’s already not a problem.

have you decided to get one now then?

Matty wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:28 pm I'd have bought an e-UP, I only do 30-40 miles a day so it's pretty much perfect, but at £20k, it's significantly more than the £13.5k of the GTi - if you even consider them comparable, as it's more in line with the standard models, so it's £10k more.

At what point do you consider the cheaper fuel costs to offset the increased initial price? I suppose, in this day and age, it's more likely that you'll look at the PCP/Lease, rather than the outright cost. So, based on 9+36, 10k/miles, the e-UP would cost you £14,6000 (yikes). The Move Up would cost £7000 over the same term....so that's £7600 difference, which means I'd need to save £2500 a year in fuel bills just to break even over then increased initial cost.

FWIW, 10k is £1150 in fuel based on 50mpg, so you wouldn't even be able to claw back the increased rental before you even took into account the cost of the leccy...

I wonder how much it would cost to charge one, we rarely, if ever, pay for electricity and receive a cheque each quarter for the leccy our solar panels produce.

The charger market definitely needs to find its place and settle down, finding a standard payment method at the very least, as most require their own app/account and differing payment options. V.annoying.

Range wise, mine will do the 150mile trip Jobbo mentioned, but the advice would be to top up before the return leg (or destination charger at both ends to graze some electrons). A Kona would do that and have spare, but they can't seem to make them quick enough to satisfy demand.

Availability of charge points will ramp up with demand I suspect, market forces and all that, but most current EV owners I speak to do most of their charging at home, using the network as top ups or for the occasional long trip.

I'm rather enjoying the Ioniq at the moment, not in the same way I would an "EVO" car, but its mellow, efficient and calming to be in, which is what 90% of drivers actually want these days IMO.

I can definitely see supermarkets, lower end restaurants etc installing a bunch of power points. What else are you going to do for an hour whilst you top up other than shop or eat? And they can probably make a profit on the fill up costs.

NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:43 pm I can definitely see supermarkets, lower end restaurants etc installing a bunch of power points. What else are you going to do for an hour whilst you top up other than shop or eat? And they can probably make a profit on the fill up costs.

Exactly, they need to understand the draw that "needing" to park for an hour can bring to a retail environment. Currently you get a mini-mart attached to a fuel station and its annoying when you want fuel, but if there's seating and a place to chill/spend money while you wait..

A mate of mine has a Tesla Model X and uses it for business trips all over the place. He just uses the satnav to plan his stops to coincide with meals. He can go to London from Chester and get about halfway back on a single charge (in summer) if he can’t recharge in the city.

Interesting to see the amount of mega mileage Tesla on Autotrader.

Just noticed the stalks are from Mercedes.

Barry wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:49 pm

NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:43 pm I can definitely see supermarkets, lower end restaurants etc installing a bunch of power points. What else are you going to do for an hour whilst you top up other than shop or eat? And they can probably make a profit on the fill up costs.

Exactly, they need to understand the draw that "needing" to park for an hour can bring to a retail environment. Currently you get a mini-mart attached to a fuel station and its annoying when you want fuel, but if there's seating and a place to chill/spend money while you wait..

This - finding an effective way to monetise 30 mins of people’s time in a wide range of locations occupies my thoughts a lot these days...

dinny_g wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:51 pm

Barry wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:49 pm

NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:43 pm I can definitely see supermarkets, lower end restaurants etc installing a bunch of power points. What else are you going to do for an hour whilst you top up other than shop or eat? And they can probably make a profit on the fill up costs.

Exactly, they need to understand the draw that "needing" to park for an hour can bring to a retail environment. Currently you get a mini-mart attached to a fuel station and its annoying when you want fuel, but if there's seating and a place to chill/spend money while you wait..

This - finding an effective way to monetise 30 mins of people’s time in a wide range of locations occupies my thoughts a lot these days...

“Dinny’s Glory Hole”

I predict the red light district will gradually move to motorway services. A session of ‘relaxation’ will just about see you through to a full charge. Those who get excited rather quickly can use the 350kw chargers but 50kw will suffice for the more enduring person.

For those on family trips a mini Peppa Pig world can be set up.

NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:09 pm

dinny_g wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:51 pm

Barry wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:49 pm

Exactly, they need to understand the draw that "needing" to park for an hour can bring to a retail environment. Currently you get a mini-mart attached to a fuel station and its annoying when you want fuel, but if there's seating and a place to chill/spend money while you wait..

This - finding an effective way to monetise 30 mins of people’s time in a wide range of locations occupies my thoughts a lot these days...

“Dinny’s Glory Hole”

I was thinking more along the lines of a real world equivalent of Online advertising targeting folks who are having of their coffee waiting for the car to charge...

Also a solution for when you arrive at a charge location and all are taken

There effectively is a “standard” now - type 2 for slow charging, CCS for rapid charging at various speeds. Only Nissan are still making battery EVs that rapid charge with CHAdeMO, and the “fast AC” that Renault pushed is gone now.

It means a lot of chargers out there that support all 3, but there’s already networks that have dropped one or both of the others in favour of CCS.

All new rapid charging from now needs to take contactless bank card payment, some always have (like Instavolt), Polar have been doing new ones with contactless and are meant to have finished retrofitting all theirs by the summer.

I picked up my eGolf half empty in Bradford and drove it back to London on 3 rapid charges. Didn’t have to wait, didn’t have any issues with chargers, didn’t add much time to the journey really (over coffee/lunch/toilet stops I needed anyway). My plan with it is to just use it like I have our previous cars, and for the longer trips just planning for some charging along the way.

simon_g wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:06 pm There effectively is a “standard” now - type 2 for slow charging, CCS for rapid charging at various speeds. Only Nissan are still making battery EVs that rapid charge with CHAdeMO, and the “fast AC” that Renault pushed is gone now.

It means a lot of chargers out there that support all 3, but there’s already networks that have dropped one or both of the others in favour of CCS.

All new rapid charging from now needs to take contactless bank card payment, some always have (like Instavolt), Polar have been doing new ones with contactless and are meant to have finished retrofitting all theirs by the summer.

I picked up my eGolf half empty in Bradford and drove it back to London on 3 rapid charges. Didn’t have to wait, didn’t have any issues with chargers, didn’t add much time to the journey really (over coffee/lunch/toilet stops I needed anyway). My plan with it is to just use it like I have our previous cars, and for the longer trips just planning for some charging along the way.

3 stops between Bradford and London??? The world's gone mad. I'd be cross if I had to stop for a wazz on a 3-4hr drive

A brave new world indeed

McSwede wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:26 pm

simon_g wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:06 pm There effectively is a “standard” now - type 2 for slow charging, CCS for rapid charging at various speeds. Only Nissan are still making battery EVs that rapid charge with CHAdeMO, and the “fast AC” that Renault pushed is gone now.

It means a lot of chargers out there that support all 3, but there’s already networks that have dropped one or both of the others in favour of CCS.

All new rapid charging from now needs to take contactless bank card payment, some always have (like Instavolt), Polar have been doing new ones with contactless and are meant to have finished retrofitting all theirs by the summer.

I picked up my eGolf half empty in Bradford and drove it back to London on 3 rapid charges. Didn’t have to wait, didn’t have any issues with chargers, didn’t add much time to the journey really (over coffee/lunch/toilet stops I needed anyway). My plan with it is to just use it like I have our previous cars, and for the longer trips just planning for some charging along the way.

3 stops between Bradford and London??? The world's gone mad. I'd be cross if I had to stop for a wazz on a 3-4hr drive

A brave new world indeed

Exactly what I was thinking!

Rich B wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:33 pm

McSwede wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:26 pm

simon_g wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:06 pm There effectively is a “standard” now - type 2 for slow charging, CCS for rapid charging at various speeds. Only Nissan are still making battery EVs that rapid charge with CHAdeMO, and the “fast AC” that Renault pushed is gone now.

It means a lot of chargers out there that support all 3, but there’s already networks that have dropped one or both of the others in favour of CCS.

All new rapid charging from now needs to take contactless bank card payment, some always have (like Instavolt), Polar have been doing new ones with contactless and are meant to have finished retrofitting all theirs by the summer.

I picked up my eGolf half empty in Bradford and drove it back to London on 3 rapid charges. Didn’t have to wait, didn’t have any issues with chargers, didn’t add much time to the journey really (over coffee/lunch/toilet stops I needed anyway). My plan with it is to just use it like I have our previous cars, and for the longer trips just planning for some charging along the way.

3 stops between Bradford and London??? The world's gone mad. I'd be cross if I had to stop for a wazz on a 3-4hr drive

A brave new world indeed

Exactly what I was thinking!

I know it's the future and I know it's heading in my direction but it needs to be an awful lot more practical to work for me.