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Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:24 pm
by NotoriousREV
GG. wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:15 pm
I think their argument is that anything which lacks a termination provision inherently can't be "transitional"
The termination provision is that the backstop will be removed once a trade agreement is in place. The Withdrawal Agreement is not the Trade Agreement.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:31 pm
by GG.
I wouldn't advise a client that they had a termination clause if it amounted to "you can get out of this contract if the other party agrees with you to replace it with something else".
Its the same point as lawyers that draft in that a provision can be changed "with the consent of both/all parties". It is essentially meaningless text as you can always terminate or replace a contractual agreement with the consent of both/all parties (even if it says you can't).
A true termination provision is either a maturity, drop dead or pre-agreed termination date or the ability of one or more parties (but less than all parties) to invoke such termination.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:44 pm
by Foz
It’s a no deal brexit isn’t it...
And I suppose it won’t be as bad as everyone suspects it will end, it rarely is.
Anyone else bored yet?
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:48 pm
by Swervin_Mervin
Foz wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:44 pm
It’s a no deal brexit isn’t it...
I just can't see that happening. At some point something will give. Whether it's Merkel having a quiet word (and possibly Macron given he's losing ground again to Le Pen), or our spineless chumps.
I still expect an 11th hour "we've solved it!" declaration from both sides with much back-slapping and gurning and proclamations of how fantastic they all are.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:52 pm
by Jobbo
GG. wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:31 pm
I wouldn't advise a client that they had a termination clause if it amounted to "you can get out of this contract if the other party agrees with you to replace it with something else".
Its the same point as lawyers that draft in that a provision can be changed "with the consent of both/all parties". It is essentially meaningless text as you can always terminate or replace a contractual agreement with the consent of both/all parties (even if it says you can't).
A true termination provision is either a maturity, drop dead or pre-agreed termination date or the ability of one or more parties (but less than all parties) to invoke such termination.
Similarly, I'd never let a client enter into a contract without a long-stop date. But this isn't just an England & Wales contract; as with any international agreement, it is more important to honour it for political reasons than because of the legal consequences of breach.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:40 pm
by Maurice
GG. wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:31 pm
I wouldn't advise a client that they had a termination clause if it amounted to "you can get out of this contract if the other party agrees with you to replace it with something else".
Its the same point as lawyers that draft in that a provision can be changed "with the consent of both/all parties". It is essentially meaningless text as you can always terminate or replace a contractual agreement with the consent of both/all parties (even if it says you can't).
A true termination provision is either a maturity, drop dead or pre-agreed termination date or the ability of one or more parties (but less than all parties) to invoke such termination.
I’ve clearly been in-house too long, but kids these days. I don’t know.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:14 pm
by evostick
Foz wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:44 pm
It’s a no deal brexit isn’t it...
And I suppose it won’t be as bad as everyone suspects it will end, it rarely is.
Anyone else bored yet?
It is thoroughly boring.
There has been some fucking olympic level bed wetting though which has been somewhat entertaining.
Opportunity knocks for GB though
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:35 pm
by Swervin_Mervin
evostick wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:14 pm
Opportunity knocks for GB though
Meanwhile...
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/japa ... f-and-lamb
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:06 am
by NotoriousREV
Cost of Brexit so far: £500,000,000 per week
Value of Japan meat deal: £500,000 per week
Only £499,500,000 to go.
And, of course, the basis of our Japanese agreement was the Japan-EU FTA.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:24 am
by evostick
NotoriousREV wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:06 am
Cost of Brexit so far: £500,000,000 per week
Value of Japan meat deal: £500,000 per week
Which pro EU think tank are you getting that figure from Dave?
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:27 am
by NotoriousREV
The completely unbiased and independent Centre for European Reform.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:47 am
by evostick
NotoriousREV wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:27 am
The completely unbiased and independent Centre for European Reform.
The very same unbiased and independent CER whose existence in this country will be rendered entirely meaningless following our exit from the EU?
The one that's funded by the banks and arms companies that have 'connections with it's directors'. I'm sure that they've no agenda to follow.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:48 am
by NotoriousREV
You’re not good at spotting sarcasm, are you?
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:58 am
by evostick
Sorry I missed that.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly how they are usually referred to as both by themselves and those who disseminate the FACTS that they generate.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:23 am
by JLv3.0
Blimey Tim that was hardly subtle from Dave
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:33 am
by evostick
Sorry it's all very confusing to me. I thought Dave was actually using their figures to continue the BREXIT = END OF DAYS theme that he's been promoting throughout this thread.
He has been impressively negative though. Only really outdone by preachers reference to Europe on the brink in 1914
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:20 am
by ZedLeg
evostick wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:47 am
The one that's funded by the banks and arms companies that have 'connections with it's directors'. I'm sure that they've no agenda to follow.
You say that like the tories aren't in the pocket of the same bankers and arms dealers
.
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:44 am
by Swervin_Mervin
NotoriousREV wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:06 am
Cost of Brexit so far: £500,000,000 per week
Value of Japan meat deal: £500,000 per week
Only £499,500,000 to go.
And, of course, the basis of our Japanese agreement was the Japan-EU FTA.
I was simply citing a positive new story. That's all. Thought it might cheer a few cvnts up
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:49 am
by evostick
ZedLeg wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:20 am
evostick wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:47 am
The one that's funded by the banks and arms companies that have 'connections with it's directors'. I'm sure that they've no agenda to follow.
You say that like the tories aren't in the pocket of the same bankers and arms dealers
.
No. I didn't say it like that at all. I was talking purely about the CER.
Perhaps you're just doing that lefty thing whereby anything that sits on your end of the political seesaw that we have in this country is exposed as being immoral, the knee jerk reaction is to attribute it, or worse, to what you choose to view as the opposition?
Re: Bye bye Theresa
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:01 am
by ZedLeg
But surely the agenda of one group of people funded by the bankers and arms dealers will be the same as another group funded by the same bankers and arms dealers, no?