Bye Bye Sunak..

[Jobbo]

That's totally disingenuous - Labour have a manifesto with viable and implementable costed policies and the party is not just Starmer. I wish it was, to be honest; if the rest of their candidates were clones of him I'd be much more comfortable with them

[GG.]

Labour have a manifesto with viable and implementable costed policies and the party is not just Starmer.

That's some time machine you have - it's not released until tomorrow! Plus as always with Labour - the numbers are almost certainly naively inflated when it comes to how much tax will be raised.

You are right about Starmer though.

[Carlos]

I like some of the Reform soundbites around savings through efficiency in the public sector, privatising some essential services, refinancing government debt etc but there's still a lot of ugly stuff there as well. It will be interesting to see the "manifesto" and how these are costed.

[Rich B]

an one seat. Their policies are vague and their appeal is based on soundbites by one man. It would be madly dangerous for them to have any actual power.


It was a reply to Beany not to your point re Reform particularly. The comment in bold is also quite transferable to Labour though

I don't think you've been paying much attention to exactly how flimsy Reforms manifesto is - they even request that it's not called a manifesto it's so weak.

[Beany]

That's all they are - soundbites.

Again, this is a party that's so woefully incompetent they 'accidentally' put full blown woman hating nazi appeasers as frontline candidates.

If you think they're doing a fully costed manifesto or are remotely serious about any of this, I've got a bridge to sell you.

[GG.]

an one seat. Their policies are vague and their appeal is based on soundbites by one man. It would be madly dangerous for them to have any actual power.


It was a reply to Beany not to your point re Reform particularly. The comment in bold is also quite transferable to Labour though

I don't think you've been paying much attention to exactly how flimsy Reforms manifesto is - they even request that it's not called a manifesto it's so weak.

I haven't you're right - I'm sure its extremely bad.

ETA: I've had a quick look. Populist groups are quite hard to pin down on the spectrum aren't they as much of this stuff is libertarian/right wing, some of it very socialist (nationalising utilities - a policy in common with the Cobynite left).

"Abolishing" the Home Office is punchy

I'd say a good 60% of their policies make more sense than what the other parties are offering. Nuclear, student loan interest, general tax policies etc. etc. etc.

[Rich B]

As I said earlier in the thread, If they could actually achieve everything they're saying they would, you'd be crazy not to vote for them! (Other than their green policies )

[ZedLeg]

an one seat. Their policies are vague and their appeal is based on soundbites by one man. It would be madly dangerous for them to have any actual power.


It was a reply to Beany not to your point re Reform particularly. The comment in bold is also quite transferable to Labour though

I don't think you've been paying much attention to exactly how flimsy Reforms manifesto is - they even request that it's not called a manifesto it's so weak.

I haven't you're right - I'm sure its extremely bad.

ETA: I've had a quick look. Populist groups are quite hard to pin down on the spectrum aren't they as much of this stuff is libertarian/right wing, some of it very socialist (nationalising utilities - a policy in common with the Cobynite left).

"Abolishing" the Home Office is punchy

I'd say a good 60% of their policies make more sense than what the other parties are offering. Nuclear, student loan interest, general tax policies etc. etc. etc.

It’s just a shame that a solid percentage of the rest is mad racism.

[Carlos]

As I said earlier in the thread, If they could actually achieve everything they're saying they would, you'd be crazy not to vote for them! (Other than their green policies )

Re-open coal mines to gain the north and welsh valley's vote made me chuckle lol

Perhaps a Labour Reform coalition is on the cards?

[GG.]

I don't think you've been paying much attention to exactly how flimsy Reforms manifesto is - they even request that it's not called a manifesto it's so weak.

I haven't you're right - I'm sure its extremely bad.

ETA: I've had a quick look. Populist groups are quite hard to pin down on the spectrum aren't they as much of this stuff is libertarian/right wing, some of it very socialist (nationalising utilities - a policy in common with the Cobynite left).

"Abolishing" the Home Office is punchy

I'd say a good 60% of their policies make more sense than what the other parties are offering. Nuclear, student loan interest, general tax policies etc. etc. etc.

It’s just a shame that a solid percentage of the rest is mad racism.

I'm not sure what you're referring to particularly but presume it is migration related? The simple fact is that net migration of nearly three quarters of a million p.a. (750,000 in 2022 and 685,000 2023) - both ONS figures - are completely unsustainable. The pre-pandemic figures were under a quarter of a million. This is similar to Germany but radically more than France (183,000 in 2023).

Clearly that is a system that needs to be completely overhauled and anyone that thinks we live in a country where sufficient housing and infrastructure is being built to cater for that influx is living in cloud cuckoo land.

It could be that those recent years are a deviation from the mean and will revert to a much lower level, but nonetheless a system which has no control over the figure expanding by a multiple of 3 is clearly not something that applies any kind of effective constraint.

[ZedLeg]

Shocked that you don’t have a problem with it.

There was the police “stop & Search” shit that Farage was going on about as well. That’s just a license to profile.

[GG.]

I don't have a problem with the idea that borders are not completely open, no.

Obviously how that is implemented is everything, isn't it. I'm sure that Farage's plan is not likely to be the most balanced or rational way of doing it.

Question is how do you chop net migration by >80% without whatever you do being a pretty radical change.

[Rich B]

I don't have a problem with the idea that borders are not completely open, no.

Obviously how that is implemented is everything, isn't it. I'm sure that Farage's plan is not likely to be the most balanced or rational way of doing it.

Question is how do you chop net migration by >80% without whatever you do being a pretty radical change.

its all pretty simple, you go to the magic money tree, take that money to the "magic border police and wall" shop and buy all the border police and walls you need! Problem solved - NEXT!

[GG.]

I'm appointing you head of the Ministry of Immigration in my government of all the talents.

[Rich B]

Excellent! We'll all be fine so long as the minister for magic money trees does his job!

[Mito Man]

I don't have a problem with the idea that borders are not completely open, no.

Obviously how that is implemented is everything, isn't it. I'm sure that Farage's plan is not likely to be the most balanced or rational way of doing it.

Question is how do you chop net migration by >80% without whatever you do being a pretty radical change.

its all pretty simple, you go to the magic money tree, take that money to the "magic border police and wall" shop and buy all the border police and walls you need! Problem solved - NEXT!

I don’t think most of them are getting in through leaky borders or whatever you want to call it. Just from my observation it seems to be mostly people from Hong Kong which is understandable and India which is not as understandable.

[GG.]

I don't have a problem with the idea that borders are not completely open, no.

Obviously how that is implemented is everything, isn't it. I'm sure that Farage's plan is not likely to be the most balanced or rational way of doing it.

Question is how do you chop net migration by >80% without whatever you do being a pretty radical change.

its all pretty simple, you go to the magic money tree, take that money to the "magic border police and wall" shop and buy all the border police and walls you need! Problem solved - NEXT!

I don’t think most of them are getting in through leaky borders or whatever you want to call it. Just from my observation it seems to be mostly people from Hong Kong which is understandable and India which is not as understandable.

Yes - this is the point - we're not looking at illegal migration here but legalised migration. This is a deliberate function of the system which could be changed by act of will overnight (unlike illegal migration/stopping small boats). This is part of the reason why the Conservatives are going to be out on their arse as it would be possible for them to change this but they have not even made pretty much any attempt until very recently (e.g. stopping students bringing family members - no idea what actual numbers that would change - I'm just citing it as an "attempt" they have made).

Sunak noting that people should vote for him because he will "stop the boats" - is being disingenious. That in itself would in no way comprehensively deal with the issue.

[Jobbo]

Labour have a manifesto with viable and implementable costed policies and the party is not just Starmer.

That's some time machine you have - it's not released until tomorrow! Plus as always with Labour - the numbers are almost certainly naively inflated when it comes to how much tax will be raised.

Fair criticism - I’d forgotten they hadn’t issued it yet because we already have so much detail of what they will do, won’t do and the costs.

[Simon]

On the manifestos, I read an article on the Beeb or Sky which basically said that both parties are hiding how much taxes raises and/or spending cuts will have to take place after the election. Labours problem is that they have backed themselves into a corner with no income/NI rises so have to go looking elsewhere.

I think it's clear they'll equalise capital gains tax and income tax, restart the fuel duty escalator in some form to finance their green agenda, and raise corporation tax.

They're going to win, but only because people are so sick of the Tories, not because Labour are selling an inspirational vision. They are too scared to say anything less they alienate any of the voters. Luckily labour have no chance here so I can vote Lib Dem to unseat the conservative with a clear conscience.

I just wish that that one party - any party - would address the ridiculous income tax cliff edges. I'm all for higher earners paying more tax, as long as that really is the case. The marginal rate for a £250k earner is less than that of a £101k earner, which is stooopid. And unfair. Overhaul the whole system.

Oh, and yes, get rid of employee and class 4 NI. Put it all on income tax. I'm sick of rich retirees not paying their fair share just because they are of retirement age.

[Carlos]

Losing child benefit, personal allowance at 50k, 100k etc are shitty policies that have a big impact on comfortable households.

It wouldn't even affect a large % of voters but those that do PAYE at £250k+ are relatively few but a 1 or 2% wealth tax on income above would create a chunk of revenue with little pushback.