OV9

I’m actually interested in that. Have Caymen and Boxster sales actually decreased since they went to 4 cylinders?
It’s doubly sad all other manufacturers including Porsche themselves have managed to continue building 6 cylinder and larger engines despite the more stringent emissions limits.

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:17 am I’m not worked up, I don’t even disagree or want an argument - I just wanted to see the evidence of boxster sales falling off a cliff because this place is famous for making up stats to support views!

I'd heard it a few places - including by Nick Murray.

This Jalopnik article (https://jalopnik.com/at-least-porsche-h ... 1831930095) on sales figures also references an increase in everything but 718 sales in 2018. I also think 2017 sales (first year of the 718) were also a drop from the last year of the flat 6. I'll see if I can find the raw figures compared YoY.

Down slightly = precipitous drop

I suppose a kerb is a precipitous drop in some ways...

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:17 am I’m not worked up, I don’t even disagree or want an argument - I just wanted to see the evidence of boxster sales falling off a cliff because this place is famous for making up stats to support views!

Rubbish, this place isn't famous.

GG. wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:15 am Take a break guys. It must be tiring getting so worked up at everything I say.

Similarly, I'm not worked up in the slightest. You do invite these sort of responses though! Tip - post evidence if you are to make statements. And stop with the patronising explanations of simple matters

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:25 am Down slightly = precipitous drop

I suppose a kerb is a precipitous drop in some ways...

Down slightly on the prior year (also flat 4). Trying to find what the drop was from 2016 but there seem to be a lot of conflicting figures.

Unfortunately it's not as easy as saying people don't like the four cylinder engine. I imagine the economic environment will have something to do with it, for example.

GG. wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:29 am

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:25 am Down slightly = precipitous drop

I suppose a kerb is a precipitous drop in some ways...

Down slightly on the prior year (also flat 4). Trying to find what the drop was from 2016 but there seem to be a lot of conflicting figures.

Now you can understand why I questioned your original statement.

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:25 am Down slightly = precipitous drop

I suppose a kerb is a precipitous drop in some ways...

biting lip..

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:32 am

GG. wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:29 am

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:25 am Down slightly = precipitous drop

I suppose a kerb is a precipitous drop in some ways...

Down slightly on the prior year (also flat 4). Trying to find what the drop was from 2016 but there seem to be a lot of conflicting figures.

Now you can understand why I questioned your original statement.

Rich, try not to get so worked up yeah?

Nathan wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:34 am

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:25 am Down slightly = precipitous drop

I suppose a kerb is a precipitous drop in some ways...

biting lip..

Or just tell us what you mean.

It’s clear then everyone is rushing to buy the new Alpine.













(That’s a joke btw)

JLv3.0 wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:32 am Unfortunately it's not as easy as saying people don't like the four cylinder engine. I imagine the economic environment will have something to do with it, for example.

Yeh there are always multiple factors in play (you have to disregard 2009 - 2011 as a result of the financial crisis) but if you look versus their other models that does allow you to identify more model specific changes.

GG. wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:35 am

JLv3.0 wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:32 am Unfortunately it's not as easy as saying people don't like the four cylinder engine. I imagine the economic environment will have something to do with it, for example.

Yeh there are always multiple factors in play (you have to disregard 2009 - 2011 as a result of the financial crisis) but if you look versus their other models that does allow you to identify more model specific changes.

and yet you don’t have these figures to look at either!

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:37 am

GG. wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:35 am

JLv3.0 wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:32 am Unfortunately it's not as easy as saying people don't like the four cylinder engine. I imagine the economic environment will have something to do with it, for example.

Yeh there are always multiple factors in play (you have to disregard 2009 - 2011 as a result of the financial crisis) but if you look versus their other models that does allow you to identify more model specific changes.

and yet you don’t have these figures to look at either!

They were in the Jalopnik article:

"The 911 is still holding its own, with 35,000 examples sold—a 10 percent year-over-year increase. And the all-new 992 isn’t even on dealer lots yet."

Old model 991.2 911 going up at the same time as the 718 is dropping.

You don't work with lawyers much Rich, I'm guessing. It's difficult if not impossible to ever get them to substantiate their statements - I think they're just so used to emitting soundbites that it becomes habit, and they hate being questioned.

Not an insult as such, before I get accused of being worked up again - just my experience.

Oh - and they are useless at number - GG - you still haven't given any figures on the 718!

The whole discussion is based around a jalopnik article saying that 2018 718 sales are slightly down on last year.

This is now somehow a “precipitous drop” because they’ve gone to 4 cylinder.

That’s the only thing I’m questioning!

Yes I know, I'm following it with ease! Let's see the figures from GG!

I'm still searching for worldwide figures but in the US, the Boxster and Cayman models in aggregate are as follows:

2015 - 6663
2016 - 6260
2017 - 5087
2018 - 5276

2017 was the first full year of the 718 - I think 2016 718s started being delivered towards the end of the year so 2015 is probably your best clean figure for all flat 6 Boxsters and Caymans. All in all you're looking at about a 20% drop off (and larger than that in the first year of the 718 - 23.6%) . That's a pretty big reduction - especially at a time when everything else in the line up is going up. I would stick by precipitous.

Sources are Porsche press releases at calendar year end for 2017 and 2018:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170518154 ... hp?id=1010

and

https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/20 ... ec_18.html

I mean you guys know this was likely anyway. You'd have to be a total NCG to not get the drop in appeal of a farty flat four motor so it seems obvious that it would hit sales.

So you’re abandoning your original figures and focusing on US sales? According to those figures 718 sales are up on the previous year.