OV9

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:42 pm**

Rich B wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:34 am Looping back, i wonder if the school fee vat coming in mid year is actually intentional? People are very unlikely to take a child out mid year, and maybe the assumption is that once they’ve paid a term, they’ll just carry on. i expect it’ll work too.

At best it would just delay it until the start of the next year and it would mean people that genuinely cannot afford the increase have to hope to get a bursary to keep their kids in, get into debt to fund it, or pull them out in the middle of the year.

I am very strongly against making significant changes to people's personal finances without them being given sufficient notice. They harp on with "oh its always been our policy for years" but they were not elected until July and you have to give a minimum of a terms notice to withdraw a child so people never had any chance to pull out before the start of school in September.

They're cunts basically - its as simple as that.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:44 pm**

Why would there be a substantial amount left in a pension pot when someone dies to inherit?

Not trying to be snide, genuinely curious.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:45 pm**

Never mind, stupid brain just realised people can die before they get the chance to spend it.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:46 pm**

Because they don't draw it until 65 but die at 60 or they don't buy an annuity but draw it gradually and die at 75 but have budgeted living until 85 or 90. Its not rocket science.

ETA yep you got it. They saved that money prudently but because they were unfortunate to not live long enough to enjoy it the position is now the state will try and claw it back.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:47 pm**

The number of people who rented for life and have a pension pot that size must be tiny, if any exist at all.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:08 pm**

This is part of the Labour campaign to get everyone to be more healthy. Live longer. Don’t die too early. Spend everything before you cross the pearly gates.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:54 pm**

The way the changes to inheritance and farming are being reported is interesting.

As I see it, the situation is that there’s a provision in the legislation to protect working land. Someone saw a loophole which led to rich folk who aren’t farmers buying farms to dodge iht. The government has closed the loophole.

To me, it’s a consequence of people taking the piss. Have I missed anything?

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 3:30 pm**

Pretty much. But odds on those very rich sorts having complicated tax structures minimising the impact on them whilst the small family farms get screwed over. As is the usual case.
Cynic in me also says it’s a clever way to release land for development. Farmer dies, kids forced to sell off a portion of land to cover IHT, real estate developer comes along and that’s that.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 3:35 pm**

The tax hit on farms is for values over £2m if the farmhouse is on the farm (which it will be in the majority of cases); that means a much smaller number of family farms will be caught by it. And those who don't plan, don't have life insurance and don't make much money but have a lot of land should be able to value the farm relative to its profits, keeping it under the threshold. It's not necessarily the case that farmland has to be valued as potential development land.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 3:35 pm**

Mito Man wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 3:30 pm Pretty much. But odds on those very rich sorts having complicated tax structures minimising the impact on them whilst the small family farms get screwed over. As is the usual case.
Cynic in me also says it’s a clever way to release land for development. Farmer dies, kids forced to sell off a portion of land to cover IHT, real estate developer comes along and that’s that.

Surely they'll just get around it by passing it on to their kids much earlier? Would only then catch out any that die suddenly

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 3:56 pm**

You’d think it would be clever to just start moving assets over as you age but judging by the reactions out there it seems like forward planning is not a thing for farmers.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:27 pm**

ZedLeg wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:54 pm The way the changes to inheritance and farming are being reported is interesting.

As I see it, the situation is that there’s a provision in the legislation to protect working land. Someone saw a loophole which led to rich folk who aren’t farmers buying farms to dodge iht. The government has closed the loophole.

To me, it’s a consequence of people taking the piss. Have I missed anything?

Or, hear me out, it's not 'taking the piss' to keep your own money and pass it on to your heirs. It's not a loophole that family farms shouldn't be broken up just to pay a tax bill when the owner dies.

My best friends mum and dad are farmers. The mum won an OBE for services to farming and tourism. They are well known in farming circles and have done a lot for the industry. However, as a family farm they'll definitely get caught by this cash grab. I don't see how the farm will survive in it's current form when her parents go. How is that right? Some corporate will probably buy it up and everyone will be worse off as a result.

They should've just put the few pence on fuel duty instead.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:27 pm**

Mito Man wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 3:56 pm You’d think it would be clever to just start moving assets over as you age but judging by the reactions out there it seems like forward planning is not a thing for farmers.

It's really not as simple as that.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:30 pm**

Simon wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:27 pm
ZedLeg wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:54 pm The way the changes to inheritance and farming are being reported is interesting.

As I see it, the situation is that there’s a provision in the legislation to protect working land. Someone saw a loophole which led to rich folk who aren’t farmers buying farms to dodge iht. The government has closed the loophole.

To me, it’s a consequence of people taking the piss. Have I missed anything?
Or, hear me out, it's not 'taking the piss' to keep your own money and pass it on to your heirs. It's not a loophole that family farms shouldn't be broken up just to pay a tax bill when the owner dies.

My best friends mum and dad are farmers. The mum won an OBE for services to farming and tourism. They are well known in farming circles and have done a lot for the industry. However, as a family farm they'll definitely get caught by this cash grab. I don't see how the farm will survive in it's current form when her parents go. How is that right? Some corporate will probably buy it up and everyone will be worse off as a result.

They should've just put the few pence on fuel duty instead.

Clarkson flat out said he bought a farm to avoid iht.

That’s a tax loophole that needed to be closed.

I never said that I think farmers are exploiting a loophole and it’s unfortunate that their lives have been made more complicated by greedy millionaires.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:41 pm**

Clarkson, by avoiding IHT and buying a farm has ironically managed to inject millions of £ in the local economy, hired a bunch of staff, opened a restaurant and farm shop and is now contributing far more in taxes than if he just did fuck all, waited till he passed away and had some IHT taken from him.
Again, one of those things where the public and economic benefit far outweighs the loophole.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:43 pm**

Not every rich person is Jeremy Clarkson

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:56 pm**

ZedLeg wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:30 pm
Simon wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:27 pm
ZedLeg wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:54 pm The way the changes to inheritance and farming are being reported is interesting.

As I see it, the situation is that there’s a provision in the legislation to protect working land. Someone saw a loophole which led to rich folk who aren’t farmers buying farms to dodge iht. The government has closed the loophole.

To me, it’s a consequence of people taking the piss. Have I missed anything?
Or, hear me out, it's not 'taking the piss' to keep your own money and pass it on to your heirs. It's not a loophole that family farms shouldn't be broken up just to pay a tax bill when the owner dies.

My best friends mum and dad are farmers. The mum won an OBE for services to farming and tourism. They are well known in farming circles and have done a lot for the industry. However, as a family farm they'll definitely get caught by this cash grab. I don't see how the farm will survive in it's current form when her parents go. How is that right? Some corporate will probably buy it up and everyone will be worse off as a result.

They should've just put the few pence on fuel duty instead.
Clarkson flat out said he bought a farm to avoid iht.

That’s a tax loophole that needed to be closed.

I never said that I think farmers are exploiting a loophole and it’s unfortunate that their lives have been made more complicated by greedy millionaires.

Yes it was me in this very thread that pointed out the Clarkson fact.

But it's not a 'tax loophole'. It was structured deliberately to allow famers to pass farms down generations without a tax impact. That's not a 'loophole', it's deliberate.

But it 'greedy millionaires' are using this method other than intended then the correct course of action would've been to abolish IHT decades ago so as to avoid any collateral impact at all.

But at the end of the day, labours gonna labour. It's all they know. They see anyone with money and assume its ripe for taking.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:58 pm**

How does that stack up for any other tax?

If someone finds an exploit just get rid of it.

All Labour’s fault though, we didn’t have a government for the last 15 years.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 7:22 pm**

There are other tax loopholes they've been investigated and retroactively voided by HMRC over the years. No-IHT on farm estates is not such a loophole.

And taxing farm estates very much is labours fault. Who else's fault is it? It's their (non manifesto) budgetary policy!

I would've personally put employee NI back up to 10%. I know they said they wouldn't in the election but the lowering to 8% by the Tories was clearly a trap, and we could I'll afford it. I would also have pushed fuel duty by CPI as well, but as I said elsewhere that itself would've been inflationary. Altogether would've netted more tax than clobering a few farmers.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:58 pm**

Isn't there a simple answer to this? If the farm has been in the family for 30 years or more and is a going concern, this can be handed down without IHT, if it's just some millionaire who bought it recently and operates it at a loss then it's fair game for tax. Or something. But surely it's a clear difference either way?

OV9

Bye bye Starmer

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