OV9

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 1:57 pm It’s funny that both party leaders keep using the spectre of Corbyn as a weapon while he’s quietly winning his own election.

Shlergen wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:36 pm It's so broken, where would you start.

Dentistry, GPs, hospitals, roads, unemployment dossers (circa 23% choosing not to work?!), immigration, education all fubar.

Tories, labour, green are a joke. Lib dem, reform ?!

Shlergen wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:36 pm It's so broken, where would you start.

Dentistry, GPs, hospitals, roads, unemployment dossers (circa 23% choosing not to work?!), immigration, education all fubar.

Tories, labour, green are a joke. Lib dem, reform ?!

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:47 pm

Shlergen wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:36 pm It's so broken, where would you start.

Dentistry, GPs, hospitals, roads, unemployment dossers (circa 23% choosing not to work?!), immigration, education all fubar.

Tories, labour, green are a joke. Lib dem, reform ?!

reform don't have any actual ideas, they just say broad statements about "fixing" things.

Lib Dem's again haven't really made any statements beyond don't believe the main parties" - but there's a chance they may end up as the opposition!

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 7:30 am they'll get a lot of votes too, but not seats.

unemployment dossers (circa 23% choosing not to work?!)

All people aged 16 and over may be classified to one of three labour market groups: employment, unemployment or economic inactivity.
People aged under 16 are not included in labour market statistics.

• A person is counted as employed if they did any paid work in a given week. Also counted as in employment are those who were temporarily away from work; doing unpaid work for their own or a family member’s business; and some people on government-supported training and employment programmes.

• Someone is unemployed if they are not in work but are looking for work (having done so at some point during the past four weeks) and are available to start work in the next fortnight.

• A person who is neither employed nor unemployed is economically inactive. This may be because someone is retired, looking after family or home, or a student, among other reasons.

Together, those in employment and those who are unemployed comprise the group of people who are economically active.

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:37 pm

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 7:30 am they'll get a lot of votes too, but not seats.

Jobbo wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 6:11 am

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:37 pm

Rich B wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 7:30 am they'll get a lot of votes too, but not seats.

How many pages ago did you say that? And how do you reconcile it with the lack of ideas you referred to on this page?

Beany wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 11:01 pm

unemployment dossers (circa 23% choosing not to work?!)

Aside, I went down a rabbit hole on this as I know that's not what economically inactive means (IE Wayne and Waynetta slob, the local layabouts who never apply for jobs etc), but I wasn't actually clear on what it does mean. The government specifically states that, if you're unemployed, you're literally not economically inactive (for the purposes of the definition)

https://researchbriefings.files.parliam ... N07119.pdf (PDF warning)

All people aged 16 and over may be classified to one of three labour market groups: employment, unemployment or economic inactivity.
People aged under 16 are not included in labour market statistics.

• A person is counted as employed if they did any paid work in a given week. Also counted as in employment are those who were temporarily away from work; doing unpaid work for their own or a family member’s business; and some people on government-supported training and employment programmes.

• Someone is unemployed if they are not in work but are looking for work (having done so at some point during the past four weeks) and are available to start work in the next fortnight.

• A person who is neither employed nor unemployed is economically inactive. This may be because someone is retired, looking after family or home, or a student, among other reasons.

Together, those in employment and those who are unemployed comprise the group of people who are economically active.

By definition, if you're neither employed nor unemployed, you're economically inactive.


A bit more detail:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlab ... edinac01sa (spreadsheet warning!)

And out of that, >85% are family carers (I'd expect primarily stay at home parents, single or otherwise), the long term sick (not actually an easy thing to get signed off, despite what the Telegraph and the Daily Mail might claim), the retired and students.

And that headline figure of economically inactive has been the same (around 8-9.0m with the odd spike - see Fig 1) for fifty years.

A quick look around some secondary sources suggests this is broadly due to fewer full time stay at home parents mixing up with more students, and fewer people 'fully' retiring etc; basically unless there's a massive societal change (IE we turn into the glorious gay communist utopia me and Zed dream of, etc - or more realistically, we were to try Universal Basic Income etc), there'll always be about 20% of people who just ain't working for any given reason.

So that was fun

Rich B wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2024 6:27 am They've picked up on a mood, they've targeted the angry people who want things fixed. When you look through their (not a) manifesto it's all impossible grand statements to fix everything:

NHS waiting lists to zero in 2 years, taxes down, immigration fixed, etc...

If they could actually do everything they're saying then you'd be stupid not to vote for them. Hence they'll get a lot of votes from people who are stupid enough to think they can fix everything by just pointing out what's wrong. they'll still likely only get 2nd/3rd at best in most seats they're standing for.

Indeed it covers retired, carers etc but there are a lot choosing not to work, taking their £75 a week, free housing, free school meals etc. Looking at the demographic, over 50% of women with Pakistani/ Bangladesh background apparently do not work. I can't understand how you can have a choice.