OV9

Simon wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 10:11 pm Once migrants are 'in' they can cross to the north France coastline relatively unhindered.

I’ve often wondered why these terribly unfortunate people who have fled war and famine and been through a horrific journey across Northern Africa only to then endure the horror of the Mediterranean crossing - itself far more dangerous than the channel - to arrive in the safety of the Europe. An then, once they’ve reached safety in the Shangri La of the European Union they choose to travel several hundred miles to the channel and risk their lives again, and the lives of their small children to cross one of the busiest shipping lanes on the world in small open boats to leave the European Union to go to, what is, by reports, a Racist country who hates immigrants???

They’re not obliged to seek refuge in the first country they reach - and France already takes more migrants than us.

If you are seeking refuge then choosing a country where you speak the language, know people or have family already or even just where there is a community from your home country, seems entirely reasonable.

Dinny, are you an immigrant or were you born in the U.K.? I never quite understood how Braverman and Patel could rationalise their positions on immigration when their parents were immigrants themselves.

We will find out soon enough if it was a deterrant or not. Not all things have to be a physical solution, they could be a mental barrier too.
Any issues people apply to travelling to Rwanda also apply to every single country in Africa, infact we don’t get an uplift for working there as our security company (as used by all RR employees and now by us) says it’s safe. So is it a belief that Africa is a hellhole worse than where these people are escaping from ? If so maybe they should visit as if it is deemed worse than then they may need to rethink their idea of a bad country.

Dave!

Jobbo wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:06 am They’re not obliged to seek refuge in the first country they reach - and France already takes more migrants than us.

If you are seeking refuge then choosing a country where you speak the language, know people or have family already or even just where there is a community from your home country, seems entirely reasonable.

Dinny, are you an immigrant or were you born in the U.K.? I never quite understood how Braverman and Patel could rationalise their positions on immigration when their parents were immigrants themselves.

Very much this. Perhaps it is a legacy of empire? Spend a few hundred years grinding your culture and language into theirs and you create a foundation of knowledge and understanding (whether real or not) about a country that makes it more attractive than a relative or complete unknown one?

My Mum said they came as getting money and a house was so easy.

There are also a LOT of companies happy to pay in cash to keep them off the books. Lincolnshire has a lot of seasonal workers with fruit, vegetable picking etc that used to be a case of work, earn, go home and it’s what made the area so lovely as some would stay and do other work or businesses etc. remember normally it was the driven people who would travel around the world to work and start a new life.
Now it’s work, earn, claim benefits and stay.

I’m only seeing this from the side that has negatively affected the area I live. The people annoyed the most are the immigrants that came over in the 70s and 80s, which here was a lot of Italians, Polish, Bangladesh and Pakistani.

Dave!

Jobbo wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:06 am Dinny, are you an immigrant or were you born in the U.K.? I never quite understood how Braverman and Patel could rationalise their positions on immigration when their parents were immigrants themselves.

No I wasn’t born here but I never really see myself as an immigrant as I am fully entitled to live here, legally - a right that dates back to 1949.

15 or 16 counties in, say Africa, have French as their language so I’m not sure the language point is completely valid.

dinny_g wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:54 am

Jobbo wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 6:06 am Dinny, are you an immigrant or were you born in the U.K.? I never quite understood how Braverman and Patel could rationalise their positions on immigration when their parents were immigrants themselves.

No I wasn’t born here but I never really see myself as an immigrant as I am fully entitled to live here, legally - a right that dates back to 1949.

15 or 16 counties in, say Africa, have French as their language so I’m not sure the language point is completely valid.

I expect the French speakers are settling in France...

Yeah possibly.

It just seems like a massive risk to do another crossing with people smugglers. You see small kids - infants even - huddled on a sinking rib when to problems you were escaping were behind you.

I suspect it has more to do with the quality of life the UK provides when compared to the EU

When we were helping at the refugee camp on the Ukraine border back in 2022 and moving refugees around Europe, the primary concern for the majority of refugees was the financial value of the benefits the host country offers. For that reason many wanted to go to Germany. Very few wanted to come to the UK.

So yeah, I'm not sure why they come here either. Maybe it's some outdated concept of Empire which they're hanging onto and see the UK, or London, as some kind of holy grail of civilisation.

The whole “why don’t they just claim in the first country they come to” bit is irrelevant anyway imo. If the services were funded properly everyone would be treated the same way.

dinny_g wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:08 am I’ve often wondered why these terribly unfortunate people who have fled war and famine and been through a horrific journey across Northern Africa only to then endure the horror of the Mediterranean crossing - itself far more dangerous than the channel - to arrive in the safety of the Europe. An then, once they’ve reached safety in the Shangri La of the European Union they choose to travel several hundred miles to the channel and risk their lives again, and the lives of their small children to cross one of the busiest shipping lanes on the world in small open boats to leave the European Union to go to, what is, a country which has worse weather and worse food???

Fixed

dinny_g wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 10:16 am https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... ly-ens-nfp

I'm not suggesting a similar type result for Reform here as the right wing has been on the rise in France for years nut this is quite a result.

No matter what goes on here, at least it's not as Batshit caazy as France...

From the Far right to the Far Left in a week and a half

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c724nnn29keo

It was a good effort to pull together a coalition to stop the far right in like a week.

I for one feel sorry for all the Renault Meganes that will soon be on fire.

Dave!

ZedLeg wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:30 am It was a good effort to pull together a coalition to stop the far right in like a week.

Not sure I agree - it seemed highly un-democratic to effectively rig an election. The sort of practice that we'd cry foul for in other parts of the world.

Rigging an election by following the French constitutional procedure and voting democratically?

"Effectively"

V8Granite wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:34 am I for one feel sorry for all the Renault Meganes that will soon be on fire.

Dave!

And yooooooooouuuuuuuooooooooaaaaahooooooh
Your Scenic's on fire

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 12:32 pm "Effectively"

Meaning what? Campaigning? Rigging an election ineffectively would not be very successful so you're still saying it's rigged.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:38 am

ZedLeg wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:30 am It was a good effort to pull together a coalition to stop the far right in like a week.

Not sure I agree - it seemed highly un-democratic to effectively rig an election. The sort of practice that we'd cry foul for in other parts of the world.

I’m not sure that forming a coalition before you’re elected is any more undemocratic than forming one when in power.