OV9

Beany wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:56 pm All of this is from a very Western standpoint however and subject to, to be frank, propagandistic tendencies; was chatting to a Swedish chum today (so culturally a bit more familiar with dealing with Russian bullshit - they learn about Russia in school in a similar way we learn about Nazi Germany and England Vs Scotland, etc) who pointed out that Russian separatist movements have been operating in Ukraine in what we agreed could be a somewhat 'IRA' sort of manner (as a cultural touchstone for me, rather than an accurate depiction) for near a decade now, and poor diplomatic efforts from Ukraine have functionally enabled this escalation to occur to an extent. It's more complicated than most would like to believe (because black and white is easy to digest and sell, greys are not) , and certainly than is being reported. It's possible it's all propaganda from both sides. Not being in the area means basically none of us can confidently read the room, politically.

Is it just me or was there a notable shift in our news coverage somewhere around the beginning of this week?
Understandable, of course, but I'm finding it somewhat disquieting that all our news reports seem to now be following the "War propoganda 101" format - Highly pejorative headline - tightly edited footage of atrocities - voxpops with crying mothers - queues of brave young men clamoring to enlist.
Also, why is the TV news on all channels based on the same 3 bits of smartphone footage? There must be millions of hours of footage being captured, but yesterday, for example, the tightly edited vid of the missile truck running over the car, the aftermath of the cruise missile hitting the tower block, and, again tightly clipped footage to Russian police dragging off protestors, were all being pushed in unison by the different news agencies.

We're closer to a state of war than we've been in 70 years - *of course* the MoD is taking a hand in managing the news flow. Maybe it just comes across as clunky and transparent because the full-on military departments are less media-savvy than actual media professionals, but it feels concerning that they've felt the need to flip the coverage into full propaganda mode so quickly and so completely.

On Pistonheads some knowledgeable plane folk are mentioning a lot of activity from the U.K. and other nations AWACS (I think it’s a different name now) technology in that area, no doubt helping them out.

Maybe it’s trying to downplay the involvement of the rest of the world and keep it very much all about the Ukrainian defence ?

Dave?

@Nefarious

I think it’s probably more straight forward than that. Given Russia’s history with Propaganda and False Information, I’d say media outlets are nervous at using any footage that isn’t 100% corroborated.

There's only so much propaganda can do when even your generally reliable chum, Kazakhstan publicly says fuck no, we're not giving you troops, and no, we don't recognise the breakaway states your claim to be 'protecting'

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live ... eBlogCards

Something is fucking fishy when Russia is asking neighbouring states for military assistance, aren't they supposed to have a world beating, terrifying military force? A military force where there are multiple reports of them running out of fuel in the road, and where multiple Russian POWs are claiming they thought they were just going on a routine training exercise, not kicking off a conflict and didn't even expect live fire. This could be Ukrainian propaganda though so bucket of salt, etc.

Oh, and more war crimes - a high rise block of flats hit by a missile, reportedly miles away from any legitimate military installation - add that to the charge sheet. No pinch of salt needed for that one, that's just a fact.



I'm beginning to wonder if Putin has started believing his own strong man bullshit and has massively overestimated his own influence, ability and military capability - now reality is setting in and cracks are showing.

It's bloody weird. Based on what you'd perceive publically about Russian military strength, this conflict should have lasted six hours with Russia grinding Ukraine into the dirt.

Beany wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:14 am Based on what you'd perceive publically about Russian military strength, this conflict should have lasted six hours with Russia grinding Ukraine into the dirt.

Russian military budget is roughly on a par with the UK, and about 10% of the US's. This isn't the 80's any more.

There’s rumours and videos of Russian tanks stuck on the road because they’re out of fuel and their soldiers have run out of food.

I’m guessing Putin expected this to be over in a day - no one can be that poorly organised.

Have we got a deepfake yet of Putin pasted into that scene from Downfall ??

Nefarious wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:23 am

Beany wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:14 am Based on what you'd perceive publically about Russian military strength, this conflict should have lasted six hours with Russia grinding Ukraine into the dirt.

Russian military budget is roughly on a par with the UK, and about 10% of the US's. This isn't the 80's any more.

I'm genuinely surprised by that, and I suspect I'd not be the only one. The way the yanks bang on you'd think they were an imminent global threat, not a bunch of demoralised, poorly resourced kids.

But then, it is the yanks I suppose. Some of whom are walking back their cock sucking of Putin from the last few days, strangely enough

Logistics and resupply win wars, you can’t fight without food, water, fuel and ammunition

Beany wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 10:00 am

Nefarious wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:23 am

Beany wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:14 am Based on what you'd perceive publically about Russian military strength, this conflict should have lasted six hours with Russia grinding Ukraine into the dirt.

Russian military budget is roughly on a par with the UK, and about 10% of the US's. This isn't the 80's any more.

I'm genuinely surprised by that, and I suspect I'd not be the only one. The way the yanks bang on you'd think they were an imminent global threat, not a bunch of demoralised, poorly resourced kids.

But then, it is the yanks I suppose. Some of whom are walking back their cock sucking of Putin from the last few days, strangely enough

I’d say having intercontinental ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads and a mentally deranged leader does qualify them as an imminent global threat.

V8Granite wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:03 am On Pistonheads some knowledgeable plane folk are mentioning a lot of activity from the U.K. and other nations AWACS (I think it’s a different name now) technology in that area, no doubt helping them out.

Yep, I've been poking around on Flightradar24 and there's been at least one Global Hawk (FORTE11) drone doing loops around the black sea for days now. Romania and Poland have a constant stream of US and UK mid air refuelers (KCXXX for the aircraft type) flying around which makes me think that there are far more birds in the sky that don't have their locators on.

https://www.flightradar24.com/FORTE11/2aefd3a1


Edit to add: This live reddit thread does a pretty good job of posting verified-ish updates and official statements with pinch of salt warnings: https://www.reddit.com/live/18hnzysb1elcs/

Is it just me that thinks it’s bonkers that people are crowdfunding for the Ukrainian military?

I had just assumed it was opportunist scammers.

Mito Man wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:31 am There’s rumours and videos of Russian tanks stuck on the road because they’re out of fuel and their soldiers have run out of food.

Yup, saw one of those videos on TikTok this morning, a Russian tank abandoned.

However, we don't know who is pushing content out and social media is one of the places that Russia will be pushing out propaganda.

Shocking footage of a Ukrainian soldier in a bad way. Not for the faint hearted - viewer discretion advised

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLBUChN2/

Sundayjumper wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 1:24 pm I had just assumed it was opportunist scammers.

Yeah that’s what I thought, but folk I follow on Twitter are boosting the funds. It doesn’t make sense to me, it’s not like they’re the self organised groups that are out in the Middle East fighting Al-Qaeda. It’s a national military, who may or may not already be getting weapons from the US.

Have you seen the footage of a large group people preparing Molotov cocktails ? Extraordinary.

I saw the video from last night where a large groups of Ukrainians are hiding and then they all Molotov a Russian military vehicle. Not sure if it did anything but it was an impressive sight.

Anyone got the recipe for those Ukrainian Molotov’s

Recipe ? Polystyrene dissolved in petrol to make a sticky flammable goo, in a glass bottle that will break on impact. Not hugely dissimilar to napalm.

Just seeing the women making them on the BBC now. That’s how I’ve always made a flammable mixture for burning damp wood but good to know that I can stuff it in a glass bottle!