integrale_evo wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 4:48 pm
Mind you, the fake suv thing has been going on for a good few years now anyway, the electric revolution just makes it almost impossible to have a ‘normal’ style small car.
It's not just an EV thing, SUVs have been slowly killing off the estate, MPV, family hatch and now superminis for decades. Might make you feel old (it does for me) but the Qashqai has been around for nearly 20 years, the CRV and RAV4 for 30.
For the most part "fake SUV" is true, something like the Kia Niro has a lower roofline than the i3. These are mostly normal cars with slightly raised ride height and a bit of plastic cladding.
On the lease docs it actually calls the Niro an estate car too. It feels more "all road" than SUV to me.
Mito Man wrote: Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:05 am
It looks really nice but I still have this personal problem with EVs where the want factor drops by 95%.
If that had an AMG 4 pot equivalent like the Lotus Emira I’d love it but meh. I realise it’s a me issue and I’m just becoming an old fart
With your i3 history would you prefer if it had a rex? Something interesting to make it worth not being pure ic, say jet turbine(s)?
The i3 worked well because it was designed as a city car and back in those days the charging infrastructure was crap which was alleviated by the ReX (barely better now tbh).
ICE city cars don’t have the most interesting engines so going electric is no loss and if anything the instant torque is a plus along with the comedic turning circle.
I just look at anything vaguely sporty I’ve driven or sat in and ask myself “would this be better if it had an electric motor” irrespective of the range issues I can’t think of any car I would say yes.
The Model 3 is alright in London, but you spend some time in it and it’s just boring - which is perfectly acceptable for a 4 door do everything saloon. You go on a motorway and it’s boring, just more wind noise. You go on a twisty road and it’s still boring. And with the latter it’s not just a weight thing or EPAS thing, there’s just no involvement bar turning the wheel a few degrees and pressing the throttle a bit and backing off to regen - I prefer hustling my Defender down a country road, or anything else as it’s satisfying.
Even my lazy automatic 6 series gives a nice howl when I boot it and I get to modulate the throttle and use the brakes.
I think Lotus got it right making an electric SUV, a lower bar overall to impress with and more potential customers.
Good points well made.
I think the biggest problem for Caterham could be that they're Caterham and that anything that isn't 7 shaped will be viewed as "not a Caterham". I'll have to have a look and see if anyone's EVd a 7.
With your i3 history would you prefer if it had a rex? Something interesting to make it worth not being pure ic, say jet turbine(s)?
The i3 worked well because it was designed as a city car and back in those days the charging infrastructure was crap which was alleviated by the ReX (barely better now tbh).
ICE city cars don’t have the most interesting engines so going electric is no loss and if anything the instant torque is a plus along with the comedic turning circle.
I just look at anything vaguely sporty I’ve driven or sat in and ask myself “would this be better if it had an electric motor” irrespective of the range issues I can’t think of any car I would say yes.
The Model 3 is alright in London, but you spend some time in it and it’s just boring - which is perfectly acceptable for a 4 door do everything saloon. You go on a motorway and it’s boring, just more wind noise. You go on a twisty road and it’s still boring. And with the latter it’s not just a weight thing or EPAS thing, there’s just no involvement bar turning the wheel a few degrees and pressing the throttle a bit and backing off to regen - I prefer hustling my Defender down a country road, or anything else as it’s satisfying.
Even my lazy automatic 6 series gives a nice howl when I boot it and I get to modulate the throttle and use the brakes.
I think Lotus got it right making an electric SUV, a lower bar overall to impress with and more potential customers.
Good points well made.
I think the biggest problem for Caterham could be that they're Caterham and that anything that isn't 7 shaped will be viewed as "not a Caterham". I'll have to have a look and see if anyone's EVd a 7.
Caterham themselves have made a few EV 7 prototypes which they are currently testing.
With your i3 history would you prefer if it had a rex? Something interesting to make it worth not being pure ic, say jet turbine(s)?
The i3 worked well because it was designed as a city car and back in those days the charging infrastructure was crap which was alleviated by the ReX (barely better now tbh).
ICE city cars don’t have the most interesting engines so going electric is no loss and if anything the instant torque is a plus along with the comedic turning circle.
I just look at anything vaguely sporty I’ve driven or sat in and ask myself “would this be better if it had an electric motor” irrespective of the range issues I can’t think of any car I would say yes.
The Model 3 is alright in London, but you spend some time in it and it’s just boring - which is perfectly acceptable for a 4 door do everything saloon. You go on a motorway and it’s boring, just more wind noise. You go on a twisty road and it’s still boring. And with the latter it’s not just a weight thing or EPAS thing, there’s just no involvement bar turning the wheel a few degrees and pressing the throttle a bit and backing off to regen - I prefer hustling my Defender down a country road, or anything else as it’s satisfying.
Even my lazy automatic 6 series gives a nice howl when I boot it and I get to modulate the throttle and use the brakes.
I think Lotus got it right making an electric SUV, a lower bar overall to impress with and more potential customers.
Good points well made.
I think the biggest problem for Caterham could be that they're Caterham and that anything that isn't 7 shaped will be viewed as "not a Caterham". I'll have to have a look and see if anyone's EVd a 7.
Only way to increase range is fit bigger batteries, only way to fit bigger batteries without compromising interior space is stick them under the floor raising the whole thing up.
Mind you, the fake suv thing has been going on for a good few years now anyway, the electric revolution just makes it almost impossible to have a ‘normal’ style small car.
A few I've sat in the back of have felt like the floor was too high compared to the seats, so your legs are dangling above the seat base. Ioniq 6 was particularly noticeable for this.
Also, yeah, I didn't think that one above was a picture of the Caterham.
Re: EV Thread
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:12 pm
by nuttinnew
Beany wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:58 am
Apparently the Funky Cat (not what it's going to be called when it eventually comes to the UK AFAIK) is, by all accounts, not a bad wee car.
BINC
Re: EV Thread
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 9:41 pm
by Mito Man
These Chinese EVs are interesting, I'm curious how they perform long term but with European, Japanese and even Korean cars being so inflated in price now these could really fill the gap. The MG stuff is utter shite but seems to sell well just because it's cheap. Imagine having a decent but cheapish car for sale here... Seems to be what the Xpeng is doing in Norway.
China can produce top notch items and I've never had issues with decent stuff from there.
Re: EV Thread
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 9:55 pm
by Carlos
There's some big mile MG5's documented on Twitter. 30-40k miles a year workhorses with nothing but consumable bills!
Same with the Korean stuff at a higher price point.
50 yrs ago the Japanese decimated complacent US/European motorcycle manufacturers. The writing is on the wall!
Beany wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:58 am
Apparently the Funky Cat (not what it's going to be called when it eventually comes to the UK AFAIK) is, by all accounts, not a bad wee car.
BINC
Well, shit. Looks like I missed that one. Doesn't exactly sound very good after all.
Re: EV Thread
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 10:37 pm
by Mito Man
Carlos wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 9:55 pm
There's some big mile MG5's documented on Twitter. 30-40k miles a year workhorses with nothing but consumable bills!
Same with the Korean stuff at a higher price point.
50 yrs ago the Japanese decimated complacent US/European motorcycle manufacturers. The writing is on the wall!
Yep, not sure why the European EV's need expensive servicing either.
Re: EV Thread
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 10:42 pm
by DeskJockey
I'm guessing it is the inertia of existing ways of operation. The landscape has changed, but they're either not able, aware it willing to adapt. Too many sunk costs.
Beany wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 8:58 am
Apparently the Funky Cat (not what it's going to be called when it eventually comes to the UK AFAIK) is, by all accounts, not a bad wee car.
BINC
Well, shit. Looks like I missed that one. Doesn't exactly sound very good after all.
Just watching Johnnys Funky Pussy review. A lot of the driver safety complaints are what I moan about on the Tesla but at least on that when you turn it off it stays off.
I’ve noticed a lot of the problem is also because our roads are so crap - worn road markings and so on. If you want these systems to work flawlessly you need flawless roads and clean unobstructed road signs.
Another thing recently, whenever they do the Operation Brock bollocks on the M20 the hard shoulder turns into lane 1 - the problem is it’s still a solid white line. I keep the lane departure warning turned on as it’s genuinely quite good however here it just goes nuts through no fault of its own. Numerous beeps, sirens and corrective steering trying to fling you into the barrier because you have to cross a solid white line each time you want to overtake.
Crap roads, crap signs, crap road markings - how’s it ever going to work
Re: EV Thread
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:02 pm
by tim
I was just totting up the cost of my road trip to the folks and idly wondered what it would cost to hire an electric car for 10 days instead of driving my Mondeo TittyX at 27 mpg for 1200 miles, and having to spunk out £90 on international rescue for when it inevitably explodes on an Autoroute somewhere.
It seems the cost of hiring a electric car is quite a lot cheaper than a shit small petrol one. About £200 over 10 days cheaper. On Hertz site anyway.
Of course, another benefit of Brexit is you can't take a hire car out of the country anymore, so that idea is bolloxed, but it was interesting that they seem so much cheaper to hire. I suppose there's less maintenance required.
Quite tempted to have a Polestar 2 for a long weekend now, just for the lols.
Re: EV Thread
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:34 pm
by IanF
tim wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:02 pm
I was just totting up the cost of my road trip to the folks and idly wondered what it would cost to hire an electric car for 10 days instead of driving my Mondeo TittyX at 27 mpg for 1200 miles, and having to spunk out £90 on international rescue for when it inevitably explodes on an Autoroute somewhere.
It seems the cost of hiring a electric car is quite a lot cheaper than a shit small petrol one. About £200 over 10 days cheaper. On Hertz site anyway.
Of course, another benefit of Brexit is you can't take a hire car out of the country anymore, so that idea is bolloxed, but it was interesting that they seem so much cheaper to hire. I suppose there's less maintenance required.
Quite tempted to have a Polestar 2 for a long weekend now, just for the lols.
That’s a limitation of Hertz. Other providers (Europcar for example), you just have to pay additional insurance
Re: EV Thread
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:38 pm
by V8Granite
Mito Man wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 10:46 am
Just watching Johnnys Funky Pussy review. A lot of the driver safety complaints are what I moan about on the Tesla but at least on that when you turn it off it stays off.
I’ve noticed a lot of the problem is also because our roads are so crap - worn road markings and so on. If you want these systems to work flawlessly you need flawless roads and clean unobstructed road signs.
Another thing recently, whenever they do the Operation Brock bollocks on the M20 the hard shoulder turns into lane 1 - the problem is it’s still a solid white line. I keep the lane departure warning turned on as it’s genuinely quite good however here it just goes nuts through no fault of its own. Numerous beeps, sirens and corrective steering trying to fling you into the barrier because you have to cross a solid white line each time you want to overtake.
Crap roads, crap signs, crap road markings - how’s it ever going to work
It’s like when driving on the road there is an infinite amount of possibilities which need a human brain to process
tim wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:02 pm
I was just totting up the cost of my road trip to the folks and idly wondered what it would cost to hire an electric car for 10 days instead of driving my Mondeo TittyX at 27 mpg for 1200 miles, and having to spunk out £90 on international rescue for when it inevitably explodes on an Autoroute somewhere.
It seems the cost of hiring a electric car is quite a lot cheaper than a shit small petrol one. About £200 over 10 days cheaper. On Hertz site anyway.
Of course, another benefit of Brexit is you can't take a hire car out of the country anymore, so that idea is bolloxed, but it was interesting that they seem so much cheaper to hire. I suppose there's less maintenance required.
Quite tempted to have a Polestar 2 for a long weekend now, just for the lols.
That’s a limitation of Hertz. Other providers (Europcar for example), you just have to pay additional insurance
Then get arse raped by lying fuckwits upon your return.
