Bye bye Starmer

[Broccers]

I wonder if anyone will be better off other than the Government.... altho some of the leaks seem likely to lose money.

[Mito Man]

I’m sure they will have an edge case “worker” who will be better off by £300 a year. (Which will be totally eroded by rises in electricity, water, bus/train fares and everything else…)

[Gavster]

It's going to be pretty rough, because the party is early enough in their term with a significant majority, so they can take actions that are largely unpopular with the public, but should be a setup for long term benefits. The problem with the public is that they're obsessed with short-term gratification and when leaders listen too much it becomes a massive hinderance to getting anything done in government. It also leads parties to make rubbish decisions.

[Gavster]

I’m sure they will have an edge case “worker” who will be better off by £300 a year. (Which will be totally eroded by rises in electricity, water, bus/train fares and everything else…)

That's exactly the point. Why should anyone be better off when we need to raise funds if we are going to fix crumbling public services? That's a hangup from Boris Johnson's approach to cake "pro having it and pro eating it".

[ZedLeg]

Because poor people are already cut to the bone. There isn’t anything else to take.

They’re making unpopular decisions but they don’t seem to make any sense.

Like raising that bus fare cap.

[V8Granite]

It just feels like they want to punish anyone who tries to better their financial position to not be so reliant on the state.

Im not too worried now as it’s all long term so won’t be releasing any gains for a good 10 years but it certainly doesn’t incentivise people to help themselves if it’s taxed so hard.

It’s just like private school fees, they assume that anyone trying to improve their life doesn’t already sacrifice things so they can achieve it.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

Tremendous example. Dave and I are diametrically opposed but equally frustrated

[Swervin_Mervin]

Tremendous example. Dave and I are diametrically opposed but equally frustrated

[Swervin_Mervin]

I’m sure they will have an edge case “worker” who will be better off by £300 a year. (Which will be totally eroded by rises in electricity, water, bus/train fares and everything else…)

That's exactly the point. Why should anyone be better off when we need to raise funds if we are going to fix crumbling public services? That's a hangup from Boris Johnson's approach to cake "pro having it and pro eating it".

There won't be any public services fixed. It'll just be more money poured into the abyss.

At least public sector workers will be largely shielded from it all though.

[Gavster]

All I'm hearing from you are more reasons to carry on as per the previous Tory gov and change nothing.

[Gavster]

Today I'm reading the Lords report on obesity. We're the fastest growing country in Europe when it comes to obesity, so I guess we're winning at something, way above average.

[dinny_g]

It just feels like they want to punish anyone who tries to better their financial position to not be so reliant on the state.

This... from what I'm reading...

[ZedLeg]

It just feels like they want to punish anyone who tries to better their financial position to not be so reliant on the state.

This... from what I'm reading...

They’re also punishing people who rely on the state though.

Your idea of what labour is doesn’t apply to Starmer’s government.

[V8Granite]

Tremendous example. Dave and I are diametrically opposed but equally frustrated

I’ll buy you a beer at the next rally

Dave!

[Swervin_Mervin]

All I'm hearing from you are more reasons to carry on as per the previous Tory gov and change nothing.

Oh change is needed, don't get me wrong there. But sadly that change would be too radical for Gov't to enact and heads would roll if they tried. And I'm not convinced that they really care enough to want to risk their gravy train being derailed.

I realise that makes me sound like a bit of a loon, but I cba going into the numerous issues that I think combine to leave us in this state of paralysis as a nation.

[ZedLeg]

While we’re getting wild with it. I’m a little concerned about all this birth rate talk while we have a health secretary who can’t seem to keep his personal/religious beliefs out of his decisions.

[Rich B]

i don’t get why there’s any confusion. the manifesto was pretty clear. Public services are shit and need lots of money. it won’t come from income tax, NI or VAT (ie. the typical taxes directly on people who earn money from traditional paid work).

where did people think it was going to come from then? it was spelt out pretty clearly - if it’s not coming from those taxes then it’s going to come from other sources like wealth.

bored of everyone playing dumb and trying to needle every definition of every word to try and find fault.

[ZedLeg]

There’s no sign that they’re really going to invest in public services though.

Wes Streeting is going to gut the NHS and the decline of public transport and utility networks will continue.

All their big moves so far have (imo) been taking things away from people who don’t have anything.

Trans people are losing healthcare, old people losing benefits, the bus fare cap which instantly increases people’s regular travel costs by 50%.

[Simon]

Yeah, the problem is that it feels like they're not fixing anything, just taxing people a load more. Unless you're a train driver, in which case you're quids in.

[Jobbo]

i don’t get why there’s any confusion. the manifesto was pretty clear. Public services are shit and need lots of money. it won’t come from income tax, NI or VAT (ie. the typical taxes directly on people who earn money from traditional paid work).

where did people think it was going to come from then? it was spelt out pretty clearly - if it’s not coming from those taxes then it’s going to come from other sources like wealth.

bored of everyone playing dumb and trying to needle every definition of every word to try and find fault.

I agree with Rich. I have no idea how the 'working people' thing has been spun so much by the press; if you make money from letting property or own a company and take dividends, that's not making income from working; it's investment income.

I'm not sure employers' NI is going up but if it does, I will be awarding smaller pay rises next April. That's what'll happen with all employers. So it'll be counter-productive (and that's why I think it won't happen).

CGT on rental properties is already charged in full. Things like CGT rates on share sales will likely have fewer reliefs. Dvidend tax relief will inevitably be hammered.