OV9

integrale_evo wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:46 pm Anyone who goes abroad without accepting the chance that the COVID status of the place they’re in might change while they’re there is pretty dumb.

Bang on!! Going abroad on a jolly really shouldn't be high up people's priority list at the moment as it isn't the right thing to do. But, as we have seen over the last year or so, a lot of people are selfish, greedy, entitled and or dumb and can't see the bigger picture.

That's a bit strong, going on holiday to a green rated destination perfectly acceptable according to the guidance.

I think to admonish people who may not have been away for over a year is a bit shit. Fair enough to say it's a risk they should be prepared for in terms of rules changing, but I certainly don't think there's anything irresponsible in going.

duncs500 wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:07 pm That's a bit strong, going on holiday to a green rated destination perfectly acceptable according to the guidance.

I think to admonish people who may not have been away for over a year is a bit shit. Fair enough to say it's a risk they should be prepared for in terms of rules changing, but I certainly don't think there's anything irresponsible in going.

Going on holiday abroad is a luxury and not a necessity. Plenty you can do over here without putting your family on a plane, going to another country and exposing them and anyone else to unnecessary risk.

I don't agree with the guidance TBH. I think we should be discouraged from foreign travel at the moment. Shit for the tour operators and airlines but probably what's best for the Country. International travel has been one of the problems with the initial spread and the spread of the variants.

I'm sick of hearing people all through this saying "but when can I go on holiday". The media are as bad, asking government ministers abroad Covid related stuff then adding on the end, "but when can people go on holiday".

Unnecessary risk of what?

How long would you have us living only by necessity?

The line between necessity and luxury is only defined by individual experience. I'm sure plenty of things you've been able to enjoy over this pandemic are other people's luxuries. Equally different people get joy from different places, some people live their lives entirely for their overseas holidays the same way others live for their car, or the pub, or the golf course.

duncs500 wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:44 pm How long would you have us living only by necessity?

The line between necessity and luxury is only defined by individual experience. I'm sure plenty of things you've been able to enjoy over this pandemic are other people's luxuries. Equally different people get joy from different places, some people live their lives entirely for their overseas holidays the same way others live for their car, or the pub, or the golf course.

A few hours ago you were concerned about us all not coming out of lockdown on time because of the spread of a foreign variant?

Rich B wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:50 pm

duncs500 wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:44 pm How long would you have us living only by necessity?

The line between necessity and luxury is only defined by individual experience. I'm sure plenty of things you've been able to enjoy over this pandemic are other people's luxuries. Equally different people get joy from different places, some people live their lives entirely for their overseas holidays the same way others live for their car, or the pub, or the golf course.

An hour ago you were concerned about us all not coming out of lockdown on time because of the spread of a foreign variant?

I know. I'm not sure I understand your point though...

It’s bullshit. Everyone at high risk of serious disease has been vaccinated and there is no evidence that any variants will create a surge of serious illness or deaths. On that basis it is utterly disproportionate to keep restrictions in place based on pure conjecture about some new killer variant which may or may not arise and is somehow an issue this year but was not of sufficient concern last year when there were not even any vaccines.

Where and when do you stop?

I guess the point for me is, certainly everyone with anything more than a miniscule chance of getting killed by the virus have been offered a very effective vaccine. Some people may refuse the vaccine, and some of those people may die, but the entire country cannot be held to ransom by a small group of people making an unwise choice.

For the record, my initial post was just noting that given the way the rhetoric has been ramped up by scientists and the media, and the increases in cases it looks inevitable that they're going to delay IMO. I certainly don't want them to or think they should.

Bolton are currently just 3 patients below the number of people with coronavirus they were ventilating in January. The good news is their admission nubmers are tailing off as things seem to recede there. I agree that infection rates don't seem to be coupling with serious illness and death in the same way as in January but there is still morbidity happening and there are still areas of low vaccine uptake.

We're close though. I think it's arguable either way.

I mostly think Portugal went to amber because the government had egg on their face over taking too long to properly contain travellers coming back from India. That said, I just don't think you can bet on any international travel right now, there are no guarantees from the UK or any other government and you risk disappointment.

Explosive Newt wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:32 am Bolton are currently just 3 patients below the number of people with coronavirus they were ventilating in January. The good news is their admission nubmers are tailing off as things seem to recede there. I agree that infection rates don't seem to be coupling with serious illness and death in the same way as in January but there is still morbidity happening and there are still areas of low vaccine uptake.

Re Bolton, what you've said appears to be at odds with what the NHS bod on BBC news said this morning, but I'm not really in a position to argue with you. He (surprisingly) painted a much rosier picture and said the admissions were I think about a third of the January rate and that more importantly they were having very few that needed ventilators, which he put down to the vaccine.

Update with what he said - "He told BBC Breakfast that many of those in hospital in Bolton – which has the highest number of cases of the Indian variant in England – were younger than in previous waves of the pandemic." and "Mr Hopson said in the most recent phase of the pandemic the number of people in hospital in Bolton with Covid-19 peaked at 50, compared to 170 in November and 150 in January and February." I acknowledge that I'm not actually proving that you are wrong as they are not contrary points to yours exactly, but a third of the amount of people and generally younger would make it seem improbable.

I don't think we can delay things on account of low vaccine uptake anymore, there has been ample opportunity to get it. The people that haven't got it have chosen not to, and are not likely to suddenly change their mind. So there's no point in factoring that in. Uptake I believe is in the 90%s isn't it? So that's pretty good.

Well I’m not going to argue with Chris Hopson, I’m just going off the data on the nhs coronavirus info pages, which may be a bit behind. I hear anecdotally the threshold for admission has dropped (or, more accurately, gone back to normal having been quite brutal during the first two waves) and it may be that people are in intensive care to receive CPAP / be closely observed rather than being ventilated.

Had my first Pfizer jab yesterday morning. Had a bit of a headache by the evening, but that's cleared up now. My arm definitely aches quite a lot still though.

The leaflet they gave me when I walked in just referred to BNT162b2 the whole way through which was a bit confusing. Only mentioned Pfizer at the very end of the leaflet where it was manufactured and by who. Glad the first one is out of the way though.

Got my first jab yesterday too, also Pfizer. Feel alright generally but I felt like I had run a marathon after going to the shop this morning

Was planning on going to the gym later but I might hold off for a couple of days.

Had my second AZ jab yesterday, no side effects so far compared to the first one which knocked me for six. The nurse did tell me to be aware of any bad headaches though.

duncs500 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:16 am For the record, my initial post was just noting that given the way the rhetoric has been ramped up by scientists and the media, and the increases in cases it looks inevitable that they're going to delay IMO. I certainly don't want them to or think they should.

I think they've been doing this for about a month now drip drip so people don't get all stressy and tell them to gtf.

Personally I am stopping wearing a mask on the 21st June and if that means I can't go in some places then so be it.

The media really ramping up the delay.

Broccers wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:08 am The media really ramping up the delay.

Of course they will, it gets frothing at the mouth types frothing at the mouth, and it gets them hits on their websites.

My holiday back home in August's not looking good...

Beany wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:14 am

Broccers wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:08 am The media really ramping up the delay.

Of course they will, it gets frothing at the mouth types frothing at the mouth, and it gets them hits on their websites.

And those with no brain cells accept it. When it does actually happen those people will go, ok we will still collect our furlough, we dont care we love being controlled its brill.