OV9

integrale_evo wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 9:19 pm I think most places are now on Pfizer as they’re down the age ranges, but don’t think they’re allowed to mix and match

Correct - clinical trials were done via a double dose regime of the same vaccine, so that application model is the only one that can be deemed both effective and safe. It’s a bit like Porsche’s n-rated tyres of course : it could be that a single dose of either provides almost the same levels of protection, and you might develop some superpowers if you mix and match - speed to achieve approval was the primary focus, so each manufacturer had to pick a clinical trial regime that was most likely to provide the outcome they wanted.

I tell you what actually going to the gym is the only place you dont have to wear a mask inside and its like a normal deal.

As soon as the masks go life will be good again.

Glad you all survived your jabs

Just got back from having mine (Pfizer). Feels like I have a dead arm already

The needles seem to be heavier duty that your average flu jab so I guess that may have as much to do with it as what is inside the syringe.

'Commuting' in and out from London Bridge / Guys hospital resurrected old memories of how bad travelling on public transport through SE London is... The house where the BLM woman was shot in the head is located pretty much in a direct line between where I live and the hospital so predictably everything was a mess with buses on diversion, etc.. I gave up and got an Uber .

Wonder what Dom will say today

Early reports hint at the fact he's been talking to Harry on tactics and strategy...

I’ve had both jabs. Had the Pfizer one. Bit of a sore arm which was worse the first time but no other side effects.

The arm pain was pretty decent though. It woke me up a few times during the night when I rolled over.

Must admit I was surprised how sore my arm was. I’m usually pretty good with aches, pains knocks and scrapes, but yeah stopped me sleeping properly and changing gear the next day was pretty painful, especially pushing away to 1st / 2nd.

I feel fine now the day after been Pfizer'd.

Bit of a stiff shoulder, but that's it. Apparently it can take a day or two to feel a bit shit though.

Interestingly facebook has now stopped censoring any posts which state that the Wuhan Institute of Virology could have been the source of the Covid-19 pandemic following the latest revelations that three lab workers were hospitalised with a respiratory illness in late 2019 (which coincides with the lab
shutdown that some intelligence sources have noted occurred)...

Again it really shows the danger of banning material predominantly because of who was a key proponent of it (i.e. Trump). It is quite laughable that many commentators (and scientists) kept repeating "there is absolutely no evidence" for the theory when China will not release any of its records on the lab or allow an uninhibited investigation - yes guys, there is absolutely no evidence in the very limited information that you have been allowed to see by an autocratic communist regime famous for its censorship

Of course it would need to be definitively proven (and likely never will be) but Occam's razor should lead anyone with an open mind to conclude that the virus just happening to pop up in a town which hosts a BSL-4 lab that just happened to have extensive experience with Coronaviruses and just happened to be experimenting using very dangerous gain of function tests to see which mutations strengthen virus virulence in such Coronaviruses is as least as likely (or within the realms of reasonable debate much more likely) as a jump from bats through an unidentified intermediate host which was then carried hundreds of miles from the nearest key reservoirs of such bat viruses to a wet market in the same town as that BSL 4 lab...

Same as with the comment that it was 'extremely unlikely' to have leaked. Well, yes, but the alternative scenario is also a pretty rare event - (a) that a virus makes the cross species jump and (b) it does so in a way that is capable of leading to a worldwide pandemic and killing millions of people. SARS and MERS and most of the swine or bird flu outbreaks wouldn't qualify there on the basis of severity/transmissibility so you're really looking at something like Hong Kong flu back in '68 which killed 1-4 million - a once in 50 year event.

There’s a balance to the freedom of information imo.

If uncorroborated rumours are being used to incite racial hate, which all the “China virus” shit was. It should be treated like any other hate speech.

Of course - if someone is saying it is "definitively proven" or that China did it on purpose then yes I agree. Its not clear the level or redaction that Facebook did - the article I read said "Posts claiming that the coronavirus was man made" were no longer banned.

To be honest I'm just interested in the facts of how it did come about. It is very important if it was a gain of function test experiment that accidently leaked that it should really throw the ethics and dangers of such experiments into sharp relief. The coincidence of it appearing in the same city where those trials were being undertaking mean that, for me, I will need definitive evidence of the intermediate host and how it happened to get to Wuhan before I would dismiss the theory that it was more likely a leak from the WIV.

Yeah, academically I would like to know where it came from but if it came from a Chinese lab we're unlikely to ever find out.

Yes, certainly possible. But in that case the position should remain unresolved with the assumption that it may well have come from there. There should be no dismissal of the possibility until the alternative has been proven, no proclamations of "there's no evidence to suggest" when they haven't been given access.

As someone rightly pointed out we should also focus on being able to bring any mRNA vaccine that is needed to market within 3 months of the onset of any future pandemic.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/27/london-c ... -14662627/

Does make you wonder how many people outside the system will get a jab?

I'd expect that statistically, if enough people on the system get the jab, it'll be a non issue - as herd immunity in the documented cohort will prevent major flare ups outside of localised areas of the undocumented.

I suspect it will be an issue if people of a certain age or group arent given the vaccine tho Beany lad.

To be honest I am past caring, even the government admit its only the over 80s that would suffer anyway which is what we knew all along.

Broccers wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 5:25 pm https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/27/london-c ... -14662627/

Does make you wonder how many people outside the system will get a jab?

They said early on that even if you are undocumented you can register at a GP and get the jab 'without fear'. It hasn't convinced the undocumented people that I know though.

Simon wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 6:03 pm

Broccers wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 5:25 pm https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/27/london-c ... -14662627/

Does make you wonder how many people outside the system will get a jab?

They said early on that even if you are undocumented you can register at a GP and get the jab 'without fear'. It hasn't convinced the undocumented people that I know though.

Did they communicate that especially in Chinese? Makes sense it's been a success when they did this time.

GG. wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 11:44 am
Of course it would need to be definitively proven (and likely never will be) but Occam's razor should lead anyone with an open mind to conclude that the virus just happening to pop up in a town which hosts a BSL-4 lab that just happened to have extensive experience with Coronaviruses and just happened to be experimenting using very dangerous gain of function tests to see which mutations strengthen virus virulence in such Coronaviruses is as least as likely (or within the realms of reasonable debate much more likely) as a jump from bats through an unidentified intermediate host which was then carried hundreds of miles from the nearest key reservoirs of such bat viruses to a wet market in the same town as that BSL 4 lab...

I find it entirely bizarre that people don't see the lab source as the more probable cause. Oh wait, the Chinese government said it wasn't so it must not be...

I think the loony conspiracy theories that developed around it being specifically developed as a bioweapon is responsible for people discrediting it as a theory. There seems to be some scientific evidence that it wasn't 'sliced and diced' to create a new variant of an existing coronavirus (at least from a few scientific papers I read months ago) so it may be true that there doesn't seem to be any evidence that it was engineered in that way - though that is what they were doing in Wuhan (see below).

What they completely miss (or choose to ignore), however, is that apparently you can run 'gain of function' experiments by deliberately infecting populations of live hosts with the virus and seeing which mutant strains emerge (just as we are seeing with the Kent, South African, Indian variants, etc. in humans). Those would show no evidence of being 'messed with' by human hands because they wouldn't have been - they'd have been organically mutated within animal cells...

Even then you don't need to go that far, it could simply be a specimen that they held and were experimenting on in some other way and which accidentally was leaked. They may have been deliberately trying to infect intermediate hosts for example to see which properties of a virus allow it to make the leap. Potentially legitimate, but highly dangerous, forms of experimentation.

Here's an article they published on what they were doing: https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens ... at.1006698

And an excerpt on the specific point of genetically engineering new viruses (or chimeric viruses as its called) by fiddling with the spike protein that allows Coronavirus to enter human cells :

Construction of recombinant viruses

Recombinant viruses with the S gene of the novel bat SARSr-CoVs and the backbone of the infectious clone of SARSr-CoV WIV1 were constructed using the reverse genetic system described previously [23] (S9 Fig). The fragments E and F were re-amplified with primer pairs (FE, 5’-AGGGCCCACCTGGCACTGGTAAGAGTCATTTTGC-3’, R-EsBsaI, 5’-ACTGGTCTCTTCGTTTAGTTATTAACTAAAATATCACTAGACACC-3’) and (F-FsBsaI, 5’-TGAGGTCTCCGAACTTATGGATTTGTTTATGAG-3’, RF, 5’-AGGTAGGCCTCTAGGGCAGCTAAC-3’), respectively. The products were named as fragment Es and Fs, which leave the spike gene coding region as an independent fragment. BsaI sites (5’-GGTCTCN|NNNN-3’) were introduced into the 3’ terminal of the Es fragment and the 5’ terminal of the Fs fragment, respectively. The spike sequence of Rs4231 was amplified with the primer pair (F-Rs4231-BsmBI, 5’-AGTCGTCTCAACGAACATGTTTATTTTCTTATTCTTTCTCACTCTCAC-3’ and R-Rs4231-BsmBI, 5’-TCACGTCTCAGTTCGTTTATGTGTAATGTAATTTGACACCCTTG-3’). The S gene sequence of Rs7327 was amplified with primer pair (F-Rs7327-BsaI, 5’-AGTGGTCTCAACGAACATGAAATTGTTAGTTTTAGTTTTTGCTAC-3’ and R-Rs7327-BsaI, 5’- TCAGGTCTCAGTTCGTTTATGTGTAATGTAATTTAACACCCTTG-3’). The fragment Es and Fs were both digested with BglI (NEB) and BsaI (NEB). The Rs4231 S gene was digested with BsmBI. The Rs7327 S gene was digested with BsaI. The other fragments and bacterial artificial chromosome (BAC) were prepared as described previously. Then the two prepared spike DNA fragments were separately inserted into BAC with Es, Fs and other fragments. The correct infectious BAC clones were screened. The chimeric viruses were rescued as described previously [23].