OV9

Carlos wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:53 pm Synthetic fuels are still relatively inefficient, expensive to produce and still produce C02 as they burn.

Why do you think they are?

Barry wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:01 pm

dinny_g wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:40 am

Barry wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:52 pm It's a hugely complicated thing to weigh up IMO, factors like vehicle life are interesting too,

Very true. The only fair comparison is:

The CO2 of building a ICE car + the CO2 to get Fuel to the station to cover 60,000 miles + the CO2 burned in driving 60,000 miles of real world driving + the CO2 to decommission the car at the end

vs

The CO2 to build an EV car + the CO2 to get power to batteries for 60,000 miles, taking into account real world driving and battery degradation + the CO2 to decommission it at the end, including safe treatment of the battery.

And to muddy waters further, there's increasing owners charging from their own solar too of course. EV charging can only get cleaner, fossil won't..

Rich B wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:17 pm

Carlos wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:53 pm Synthetic fuels are still relatively inefficient, expensive to produce and still produce C02 as they burn.

Why do you think they are?

so you're already saying there's alternate synthetic fuels being developed for "fossil fuel" cars in an effort to make them cleaner. Not necessarily the end of the line that Barry talks of for "fossil fuel" then...

Barry wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:52 pm That's why I didn't state it as a fact, I'm just reporting I've seen other claims that suggest otherwise. I do find it hard to believe that an EV with far less moving parts, and some dubious metals, is somehow taking so long to balance out, compared to all those extra parts that need raw material, manufacturing, transporting, assembling, transporting, building onto the car. And then there's oil rigs, refineries, transporting the fuel, all those fuel stations Vs cables and a few units to plug into.

It's a hugely complicated thing to weigh up IMO, factors like vehicle life are interesting too, assuming the chassis lasts about the same, the batteries can be repurposed for home/business storage, and there's less components to recycle from the rest of it.

Ignoring the fact we like ICE vehicles as a hobby, I see EV as improving air quality in built up areas at least. These days I hate getting caught behind a derv.

Thought I'd do a quick search to illustrate points

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorri ... still-win/

This seems a fair balance on a quick skim and even they say it's more likely 15/20k miles, which is a third of the Volvo claim.

dinny_g wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:58 pm I’m still hopeful for Hydrogen Fuel cells to be honest Barry

Barry wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:29 pm

dinny_g wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:58 pm I’m still hopeful for Hydrogen Fuel cells to be honest Barry

Same answer It looks like it has a place at larger scales, where you can produce the gas on site, but for private vehicles it's really not viable from what I've seen. Fossil industry obviously trying really hard to make a case for it, for selfish reasons mainly.

Barry wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:50 pm It'll be interesting to see how JCB get on too.

I won't be buying a hydrogen boiler though, heat pump all the way for me. FRO pumping H into my home.

Mito Man wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:34 pm The original Elise based Tesla Roadster was only 1.3 tonnes. You'd hope after 15 years it would be better.

jamcg wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 5:22 pm

Mito Man wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:34 pm The original Elise based Tesla Roadster was only 1.3 tonnes. You'd hope after 15 years it would be better.

Whatever weight saving has been gained in 15 years will have been lost in safety systems

Mito Man wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 5:47 pm Fiat 500ev with 24kw is under 1300kg. You’d think they could get near that even with a bigger battery pack if it’s so lightweight.