OV9

13 years

integrale_evo wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:51 pm Wonder what the average lifespan of a normal car is?

21 years and 4 months for me

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:27 pm

dinny_g wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:19 pm Saw a very interesting video on EV cars this morning.

A ICE car takes 6Tonnes of CO2 to be manufactured whereas a similar EV car takes between 12 and 15 Tonnes of Co2, due to the materials needed.

Taking into account the CO2 required to produce the electricity to power it (on an average Renewable vs Non Renewable Split), it takes about 80,000 miles before the Carbon Produced by the ICE car is more than the EV Car.

Can't find the clip anymore and taken with a pinch of salt but I found it very interesting - going to do some digging to see if there's any truth in it.

It's based on research undertkaen by Volvo, in which they analysed the carbon footprint of the produciton of EV and ICE versions of the same model. And they're very open about it, which is a good thing I suppose.

And it's been claimed inaccurate several times by other people with different interests to put across. I've seen the pay off time quoted as little as 16k miles. Plus it ignores the emissions of the fuel sources used during those mileages. EV is getting cleaner, ICE simply isn't, for eg.

integrale_evo wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:51 pm Wonder what the average lifespan of a normal car is? Probably not a huge amount more than that, and I guess also assumes the ev battery won’t need replacement before that point.

Alarmingly it's something like 8-10yrs I think. I thought that must be bollocks but recently found out both our 120d (57 plate) and 197 (08 plate) were both scrapped in the last few years. Seems odd when you own a perfectly fine older car.

Barry wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:54 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:27 pm

dinny_g wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:19 pm Saw a very interesting video on EV cars this morning.

A ICE car takes 6Tonnes of CO2 to be manufactured whereas a similar EV car takes between 12 and 15 Tonnes of Co2, due to the materials needed.

Taking into account the CO2 required to produce the electricity to power it (on an average Renewable vs Non Renewable Split), it takes about 80,000 miles before the Carbon Produced by the ICE car is more than the EV Car.

Can't find the clip anymore and taken with a pinch of salt but I found it very interesting - going to do some digging to see if there's any truth in it.

It's based on research undertkaen by Volvo, in which they analysed the carbon footprint of the produciton of EV and ICE versions of the same model. And they're very open about it, which is a good thing I suppose.

And it's been claimed inaccurate several times by other people with different interests to put across. I've seen the pay off time quoted as little as 16k miles. Plus it ignores the emissions of the fuel sources used during those mileages. EV is getting cleaner, ICE simply isn't, for eg.

I can't see why Volvo would put put research that's to their disadvantage. They've an EV axe to grind given they've committed to the principle. I thought that it didn't ignore the fuel sources? I have read it but can't recall the detail.

That's why I didn't state it as a fact, I'm just reporting I've seen other claims that suggest otherwise. I do find it hard to believe that an EV with far less moving parts, and some dubious metals, is somehow taking so long to balance out, compared to all those extra parts that need raw material, manufacturing, transporting, assembling, transporting, building onto the car. And then there's oil rigs, refineries, transporting the fuel, all those fuel stations Vs cables and a few units to plug into.

It's a hugely complicated thing to weigh up IMO, factors like vehicle life are interesting too, assuming the chassis lasts about the same, the batteries can be repurposed for home/business storage, and there's less components to recycle from the rest of it.

Ignoring the fact we like ICE vehicles as a hobby, I see EV as improving air quality in built up areas at least. These days I hate getting caught behind a derv.

Thought I'd do a quick search to illustrate points

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorri ... still-win/

This seems a fair balance on a quick skim and even they say it's more likely 15/20k miles, which is a third of the Volvo claim.

Even the worst case scenario - say you're charging a car off electricity from a coal power plant which means it will take 80,000 miles to breakeven would be a net reduction in CO2 as the average car will do a little over 100,000 miles before being scrapped. 20,000+ polar bear saving tree hugging guilty free eco wanking miles. Therefore the best time to buy an EV was 20 years ago, the next best time is tomorrow.

Spoiler

Set as spoiler due to shmee content- starting the electric Abarth. With synthetic engine noise. Ffs

Not going to watch video (Mik watches all videos 10 times and then posts a quick synopsis thankfully), but that was Salon Privé in Chelsea last week.. think the 500e will work in big cities like London and they need to make a noise to stop people being run over.

IanF wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:54 am Not going to watch video (Mik watches all videos 10 times and then posts a quick synopsis thankfully), but that was Salon Privé in Chelsea last week.. think the 500e will work in big cities like London and they need to make a noise to stop people being run over.

I watch all Schmee videos minus 10 times though.

All newish EVs make a noise to warn pedestrians whilst travelling slowly though. IIRC the speaker exhaust on the 500e Abarth makes more noise than the ICE Abarth.

Taycans are no quieter than normal large cars like range rovers. The tyre roar is more than enough to hear them coming.

It’s more for carpark type situations where you’re going at under 10mph and clueless people walk down the middle of the road with no idea you’re behind them. But EVs with the simulated sound are now louder than a modern refined petrol too so it’s not a problem.

The worst I’ve had is following a pair of horse riders for a 1/2 mile down a country road in the Model 3 as they couldn’t hear me and I couldn’t press the horn as I didn’t want to spook them.

Barry wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:52 pm It's a hugely complicated thing to weigh up IMO, factors like vehicle life are interesting too,

Very true. The only fair comparison is:

The CO2 of building a ICE car + the CO2 to get Fuel to the station to cover 60,000 miles + the CO2 burned in driving 60,000 miles of real world driving + the CO2 to decommission the car at the end

vs

The CO2 to build an EV car + the CO2 to get power to batteries for 60,000 miles, taking into account real world driving and battery degradation + the CO2 to decommission it at the end, including safe treatment of the battery.

London's not the problem - we've had nearly 2 decades of slow-speed silent Prius minicabs to get used to it

My first PHEV didn't have any sound generator and rarely had a problem. Leaf now is quite intrusive at slow speed, and has pretty loud reversing chimes too.

dinny_g wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:40 am

Barry wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:52 pm It's a hugely complicated thing to weigh up IMO, factors like vehicle life are interesting too,

Very true. The only fair comparison is:

The CO2 of building a ICE car + the CO2 to get Fuel to the station to cover 60,000 miles + the CO2 burned in driving 60,000 miles of real world driving + the CO2 to decommission the car at the end

vs

The CO2 to build an EV car + the CO2 to get power to batteries for 60,000 miles, taking into account real world driving and battery degradation + the CO2 to decommission it at the end, including safe treatment of the battery.

And to muddy waters further, there's increasing owners charging from their own solar too of course. EV charging can only get cleaner, fossil won't..

Barry wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:01 pm

dinny_g wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:40 am

Barry wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:52 pm It's a hugely complicated thing to weigh up IMO, factors like vehicle life are interesting too,

Very true. The only fair comparison is:

The CO2 of building a ICE car + the CO2 to get Fuel to the station to cover 60,000 miles + the CO2 burned in driving 60,000 miles of real world driving + the CO2 to decommission the car at the end

vs

The CO2 to build an EV car + the CO2 to get power to batteries for 60,000 miles, taking into account real world driving and battery degradation + the CO2 to decommission it at the end, including safe treatment of the battery.

And to muddy waters further, there's increasing owners charging from their own solar too of course. EV charging can only get cleaner, fossil won't..

why don't you think ICE fuel can get cleaner?

Synthetic fuels are still relatively inefficient, expensive to produce and still produce C02 as they burn.

Why do you think they are?

simon_g wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:45 am London's not the problem - we've had nearly 2 decades of slow-speed silent Prius minicabs to get used to it

My first PHEV didn't have any sound generator and rarely had a problem. Leaf now is quite intrusive at slow speed, and has pretty loud reversing chimes too.

There is a Kona that does the school run that is louder than our V8 ML and when pulling away much louder. When driving and in the wet, I can’t tell the difference with modern cars, compared to cars 10 years ago though electric is quieter.

Dave!

IanF wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:54 am Not going to watch video (Mik watches all videos 10 times and then posts a quick synopsis thankfully), but that was Salon Privé in Chelsea last week.. think the 500e will work in big cities like London and they need to make a noise to stop people being run over.

Driving around London in the 500e is lovely, lots of torque, a nice burble and a long second gear so you can grab those gaps and still surge off.
Tunnels are great and it being narrow is a bonus.

The Fiat 500e should remove its badging, it will harm Google searches forever more !!

Dave!