OV9

Polls suggest that most people would rather the Conservatives stay in power despite them seemingly being incapable of walking and talking without either tripping up, asphyxiating, or an amusing mixture of both. That is a devastating critique of Corbyn and the Labour party is it stands, right now.

The only thing you have to do to win is let your opponent completely fuck up



I mean, how is it possible that the Conservatives have been making such a complete fucking mess of things, but yet people would still rather they stay in power rather than have a general election and potentially let Corbyn take the country forward?

That's fucking woeful and Labour supporters who back Corbyn need to take a long hard look at themselves over this, because they should be dancing on the Tory graves at this point.

Beany wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:24 pm I mean, how is it possible that the Conservatives have been making such a complete fucking mess of things, but yet people would still rather they stay in power rather than have a general election and potentially let Corbyn take the country forward?

That's fucking woeful and Labour supporters who back Corbyn need to take a long hard look at themselves over this, because they should be dancing on the Tory graves at this point.

I get the impression that most politicians are now career politicians, who only want to make to the top of their profession and don't care about fucking over their colleagues or the people in their country to get themselves there....and there's also the other politicians who are extremely rich and only want to drive their agenda, to make themselves even richer.

That's why none of them are desirable to vote for. For the most part they're uninspiring people. I'm sure there are good MP's out there, but they're probably outnumbered by the bad ones now.

I refer to my previous point, which is that they should all be lined up against a wall, shot at random, one a minute, till they start re-aligning their priorities.

Statement at 10pm. Resignation, or General Election?

Unfortunately labours one and only plan is to try and get a GE. Wouldn’t it be nice if they chose a stance on the actual issue at hand and pushed for that - you know, like an opposition party is supposed to do.

I think your right Rich..,

They’ll even offer another referendum in the hope of attracting Pro remain Tory supporters.

Won’t work of course as the Tory’s will offer the same

Rich B wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:51 pm Unfortunately labours one and only plan is to try and get a GE. Wouldn’t it be nice if they chose a stance on the actual issue at hand and pushed for that - you know, like an opposition party is supposed to do.

It's impossible though. That's why. He wants out, as do a sizeable chunk of their traditional electorate, but his members who put him there want in along with a lot of his shadow cabinet. May's deal is probably about where they'd be prepared to meet but they can't do that because that would align with the Tories.

The issue is fundamentally divisive within the two main parties, and has been for decades. Hence the current mess, and why the idea of a referendum was swept under the carpets for so many years.

There’s been some interesting discussions on Twitter regarding the maths for Labour.

The theory goes that Corbyn is pushing for Leave because a) he’s a Eurosceptic and b) the constituencies that voted most heavily for Leave were Labour seats.

However, even in those safe Labour seats, Labour voters make up less than half the electorate in those seats, so those majorities that voted Leave are most likely not mainly Labour voters.

So, if Labour stood on a Remain platform, they would lose some voters, but there aren’t many viable options for Labour voters to move to, and most wouldn’t defect to the Tories. Tory remainers may switch to Labour but only in small numbers. Even if Labour lost 2 Brexiteers for every 1 Remainer they gained, they’d still win in their key seats. So it actually makes mathematical sense for them to stand on a Remain platform as it gives them their best chance of victory. Or at least it would, if they could actually force a GE.

I may have spent too long eating the lead paint on my cot as a child, so this may be blindingly obvious to everyone else. Can someone please explain to me why the parties can't work together for the general good of the people who elected them? Do they not realise that the populous is getting fed up with their constant ridicule of any suggestion that isn't their own?
Remainers verses Brexiteers is just as bad. Can we not work together to come up with the least compromised solution, rather than pandering to whom ever shouts loudest and longest?

Everything about Brexit is a complete and utter shitshow. The mouthy breathers around here are dragging their knuckles behind them shouting about how they voted to leave with no deal, we should leave now with no deal, and anyone isn't with them, is against them.

This whole situation really has brought out the worst in people. This hyper-national, isolationist, blinkered world view is something that I thought that had been left behind nearly 100 years ago. Are we really doomed to repeat history again?

Yes. HTH.

Excellent. I'll start stockpiling tins of beans.

With sausages?

Thought this was a good insight into Labour’s predicament... Maximum Political Utility

https://news.sky.com/story/what-is-corb ... e-11609257

Beany wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:24 pm Polls suggest that most people would rather the Conservatives stay in power despite them seemingly being incapable of walking and talking without either tripping up, asphyxiating, or an amusing mixture of both. That is a devastating critique of Corbyn and the Labour party is it stands, right now.

The only thing you have to do to win is let your opponent completely fuck up



I mean, how is it possible that the Conservatives have been making such a complete fucking mess of things, but yet people would still rather they stay in power rather than have a general election and potentially let Corbyn take the country forward?

That's fucking woeful and Labour supporters who back Corbyn need to take a long hard look at themselves over this, because they should be dancing on the Tory graves at this point.

I think on the General Election thinking is that the electorate doesn't want another poll like that, as a change in government probably wouldn't change anything, but we'd have to put up with weeks of politicking in the news in the run up to it.

I think the electorate would tolerate an EU ref because, from a news and reporting perspective (at least), it'd bring an end to the current stalemate and I believe that opinion has now switched to remain.

But please, no GE. It's pointless, a waste of time and solves nothing. NOTHING.

IanF wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:40 pm Thought this was a good insight into Labour’s predicament... Maximum Political Utility

https://news.sky.com/story/what-is-corb ... e-11609257

He hopes, I'm sure, to run down the clock until the prime minister is out of options, save for one: a new election. For Jeremy Corbyn, Brexit will always remain just that - his best (but most perilous) electoral opportunity.

If that is the case (it is) then that is fucking scandalous - it’s bascially deliberately fucking over the future of the entire country for personal gain.

Simon wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:48 pm

I think the electorate would tolerate an EU ref because, from a news and reporting perspective (at least), it'd bring an end to the current stalemate and I believe that opinion has now switched to remain.

I think you're deluded. The vote would still likely be very close. Unless it's a very big margin either way, when do you stop? Best of 3?

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:54 pm

Simon wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:48 pm

I think the electorate would tolerate an EU ref because, from a news and reporting perspective (at least), it'd bring an end to the current stalemate and I believe that opinion has now switched to remain.

I think you're deluded. The vote would still likely be very close. Unless it's a very big margin either way, when do you stop? Best of 3?

I think 'deluded' is a bit strong. There's lots of poll data around to support my hypothesis

Deluded that it would bring an end to the stalemate. I didn't dispute it might swing to Remain, I said it would still be very close.

Yes, I imagine it would be close, but I think Remain would have it by a similar 52/48 majority that Leave won by last time.

When I say 'stalement' I explicitly mean political stalemate. My thinking is this. Parliament has a strong remain majority, but with the 'mandate' of the last ref A50 was triggered.

If you had a further ref to say 'leave or remain' and a second question of 'if leave, then No-deal or May's deal', then whatever the outcome MPs would have a mandate to proceed, even if the outcome was against their own preferences.

I don't think the country would be healed, but at last Parliament could move on to other business.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:54 pm

Simon wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:48 pm

I think the electorate would tolerate an EU ref because, from a news and reporting perspective (at least), it'd bring an end to the current stalemate and I believe that opinion has now switched to remain.

I think you're deluded. The vote would still likely be very close. Unless it's a very big margin either way, when do you stop? Best of 3?

This “Best of 3” bullshit needs to stop. It is entirely facile reasoning. A second referendum would not be a re-run of the first, it would be allowing the electorate the chance to decide on the actual terms of the deal vs no deal vs remain. Intellectually, you must be able to see that we have far more information to base our decision on than we did in 2016? The only possible objections to another referendum are either that you’re afraid the outcome will swing to remain, or pure voting fatigue.

This has just reached the FTS moment for me.

Fuck This Shit.

It was distracting for a while but I can't keep up with the nonsense, it doesn't affect me and the people I know in the UK will probably be fine. So I don't care any more and hope it all works itself out in the end.

Goodbye