OV9

ZedLeg wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 1:51 pm I wouldn’t be so sure tbh.

Like I said, it’s this kind of stuff that’s driving core Labour voters away.

Very short sighted imo.

My guess is that amount of core Labour voters that are going to turn up and put a cross in any other box than Labour over this (or anything else) is miniscule.

They'll all vote Labour as getting the Tories out is the priority.

These sorts of things are just things to moan about, people like having things to moan about.

ZedLeg wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 1:51 pm I wouldn’t be so sure tbh.

Like I said, it’s this kind of stuff that’s driving core Labour voters away.

Very short sighted imo.

who are they going to go to? Independents? Greens? LD? Neither really changes the overall results dramatically, they're not going to go to the Tories are they.

We had a left opposition, and they got soundly thrashed by Boris Johnson FFS. People want centre government with only a hint of left/right.

Some of it will be my far left echo chamber but I would say there are more people saying they’re going to be voting elsewhere or not voting at all than folk pushing for a labour win.

Starmer’s labour have let too many people down with their rhetoric. They’ll just have to be sure that they’ve attracted more centre fence sitters than lefties they’ve pushed away.

Rich B wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 2:04 pm We had a left opposition, and they got soundly thrashed by Boris Johnson FFS. People want centre government with only a hint of left/right.

That comes back to my other point from the other day, are people really happy to vote for a change of tie colour every 5 years and business as usual?

It’s not been working that well for us recently.

I’m not voting because I have some ridiculous notion that if turnout is historically low all the parties might have a think about why that might be and make some changes.

I know they won’t, but none of them deserve the effort to get out and cross the box.

ZedLeg wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 2:09 pm

Rich B wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 2:04 pm We had a left opposition, and they got soundly thrashed by Boris Johnson FFS. People want centre government with only a hint of left/right.

That comes back to my other point from the other day, are people really happy to vote for a change of tie colour every 5 years and business as usual?

It’s not been working that well for us recently.

You'd hope it was more than just a tie change, but I suspect it's not an awful lot more.

I just want someone honest in the position who isn't openly putting themselves/their party ahead of what's best for the country. I fully accept I won't agree with every decision made, but I'd like those decisions to be made for the country.

Listen to what they’re saying, what are you expecting Labour to fix?

Starmer and Sunak agree more than they don’t.

ZedLeg wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 2:23 pm Listen to what they’re saying, what are you expecting Labour to fix?

Starmer and Sunak agree more than they don’t.

You clearly aren't reading any of my posts.

I am, you vaguely want an honest politician in charge. What does that mean in reality though.

integrale_evo wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 2:14 pm I’m not voting because I have some ridiculous notion that if turnout is historically low all the parties might have a think about why that might be and make some changes.

I know they won’t, but none of them deserve the effort to get out and cross the box.

That's is a ridiculous notion , but your last sentence still stands.

duncs500 wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 2:34 pm

integrale_evo wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 2:14 pm I’m not voting because I have some ridiculous notion that if turnout is historically low all the parties might have a think about why that might be and make some changes.

I know they won’t, but none of them deserve the effort to get out and cross the box.

That's is a ridiculous notion , but your last sentence still stands.

This is my fundamental problem too. I see the majority of politicians as primarily self-serving, doing their best to attain promotion in their political career, and I therefore struggle to trust them.

And I can't bring myself to vote tactically : I can't and therefore won't give Party X my vote just because they are the only one with any realistic chance of defeating Party Y, if I see that as effectively voting to get dogshit on my shoe, versus getting dogshit on both of my shoes.

I certainly don't agree with tactical voting, just vote for what you believe in IMO. If you don't want to vote because you don't like any option, I think that's fine too.

I have to believe that any individual isn't a complete shyster until they prove they are though, so to consider all politicians untrustworthy scumbags whilst certainly seeming likely, doesn't fit with me... foolish as that may be. I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

The hardest bit is separating the facts from emotion, hyperbole and media misinformation. I don't think people spend enough time doing that.

I think saying that you want/expect your politicians to be honest is such a truism that it’s redundant.

I can’t imagine that anyone wants mps who lie to them.

ZedLeg wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 4:12 pm I think saying that you want/expect your politicians to be honest is such a truism that it’s redundant.

I can’t imagine that anyone wants mps who lie to them.

Of course everyone wants it, but nobody expects it. Nor do I, but I still can't bring myself to think not one of them is acting in our interest as opposed to their own... some must be.

Let's hope KS is one of the good guys given he's our next PM.

I think you’re going to be disappointed tbh.

ZedLeg wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 4:12 pm I can’t imagine that anyone wants mps who lie to them.

unfortunately there are plenty who will simply say "better the devil you know" and vote for exactly that.

ZedLeg wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 4:12 pm I can’t imagine that anyone wants mps who lie to them.

Hahaha.

Hahahahahaha.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

ZedLeg wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 4:12 pm I can’t imagine that anyone wants mps who lie to them.

Plenty of people actively want Boris to come back, not just as an MP but as PM. So yes, it seems a large number do want an MP and Prime Minister who lies to them.

Jobbo wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 7:18 am

ZedLeg wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 4:12 pm I can’t imagine that anyone wants mps who lie to them.

Plenty of people actively want Boris to come back, not just as an MP but as PM. So yes, it seems a large number do want an MP and Prime Minister who lies to them.

Which demonstrates that democracy has failed. Asking the general public to make decisions is a terrible idea.

That’s a failure of education rather than democracy.