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Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:39 pm
by JLv3.0
IanF wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:06 pmMCAS existed within the flight control systems on the previous gen B737, and has existed on Airbus forever
Ian - just give us some words on that, can you, before this gets all emotional
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:40 pm
by NotoriousREV
If the worst thing anyone can say about me is that I’m well read, knowledgable and critical, I’ll take it
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:41 pm
by NotoriousREV
JLv3.0 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:39 pm
IanF wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:06 pmMCAS existed within the flight control systems on the previous gen B737, and has existed on Airbus forever
Ian - just give us some words on that, can you, before this gets all emotional
It’s definitely been part of the Airbus forever. It’s the assertion it was on the 737NG I think he’s wrong on, at least in the form it’s in on the MAX. And I’m basing that on what Boeing has said publicly.
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:42 pm
by JLv3.0
Gotcha. I was wondering if it was implemented under a different name previously or summat.
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:44 pm
by NotoriousREV
I’m not questioning anything else he said
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:45 pm
by IanF
Lol! It was called something else on the NG - MSR: min speed reversion protection aka high alpha low speed protection. Bascically, when you get near stall speed (1.3x speed in current config) the aircraft will mode change so it can pitch down and maintain its speed. It’s not just the NG that had this either.
Honestly, believing everything Boeing says on its sales pitch!
Next you’ll be saying all Volvos will be electric by 2020.
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:52 pm
by Mito Man
Fuck I need more popcorn.
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:53 pm
by NotoriousREV
Nothing to do with the sales pitch, it's what they said during the investigation into the Lion Air crash. The whole point is that they *didn't* include it in the sales pitch, hence pilots not being aware of its operation or existence. Come on, you should be better than this.
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:02 pm
by Rich B
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:13 pm
by NotoriousREV
Differences between MCP (737NG) and MCAS (737MAX):
- MCP is only there to prevent speed dropping below Minimum speed x 1.3 for a given flap configuration - MCAS is there to prevent stall during tight turns at high AoA induced by the larger engines, altered centre of gravity and aerodynamics of the nacelle design.
- MCP only operates in AP mode - MCAS operates in all modes
- MCP can pitch nose up or down whilst increasing thrust to N1 to maintain speed - MCAS only pitches nose down
- MCP can be overridden by exiting AP - MCAS needs to be powered off via 2 breaker switches and then overridden manually by the pilot
Other than that, they're identical
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:49 pm
by IanF
NotoriousREV wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:13 pm
Differences between MCP (737NG) and MCAS (737MAX):
- MCP is only there to prevent speed dropping below Minimum speed x 1.3 for a given flap configuration - MCAS is there to prevent stall during tight turns at high AoA induced by the larger engines, altered centre of gravity and aerodynamics of the nacelle design.
- MCP only operates in AP mode - MCAS operates in all modes
- MCP can pitch nose up or down whilst increasing thrust to N1 to maintain speed - MCAS only pitches nose down
- MCP can be overridden by exiting AP - MCAS needs to be powered off via 2 breaker switches and then overridden manually by the pilot
Other than that, they're identical
MCP - mode control panel?
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:51 pm
by IanF
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:55 pm
by NotoriousREV
MCAS operates independently from AP.
Boeing, FAA, CAA, EASA, Pilot's Unions, 737NG and 737 MAX pilots, and engineers are all saying it's a new feature on the 737MAX. With respect, Ian, I'm going to listen to them and not you on this one.
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:07 pm
by Maurice
I’m really not sure who I should be aiming “aviatiown3d” at yet.
Can someone let me know when things pan out a bit more clearly?
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:10 pm
by IanF
I’ve not read anything that links the Regulating Authorities or Unions to MCAS other than them both being in the same news articles. Have you seen a statement where Boeing , Unions or Authorities state anything about MCAS?
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:20 pm
by NotoriousREV
I assume you mean other than the FAA ordering Boeing to make changes to the MCAS software following the Lion Air crash?
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:22 pm
by NotoriousREV
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:34 pm
by NotoriousREV
This is the data from the Lion Air crash. Note Autopilot is not engaged and that every time manual trim is set, auto trim does the opposite:
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:39 pm
by Simon
We've definitely nearly reached agreement on this.
Re: 737 Max
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:59 pm
by NotoriousREV
