OV9

Exactly, same as it ever was. Which has answered my question, so I'm out to let you lot squabble.

Oh, and I’m wrong about VAT. The UK government aren’t fully in control, EU says we have to charge at least 15% (we charge 20% so no impact there) and we could add feminine hygiene products either into the exempt list or the 5% list if we wanted.

I'll take one - don't have time to do them all. Tampons!

Rev is correct. The UK can set rates of VAT. What it cannot do is ZERO RATE for tampons because of their classification. This is why the EU actually released a statement noting it was going to provide further flexibility on this. That, so far as I'm aware, has not actually translated into action.

If the above is still not accurate though then do correct me with further info because i'm not interested in being wrong just to support an argument.

ETA: funny Rev took the same one. Tampons are already on the 5% rate. This doesn't support your suggestion you know what you're talking about. As with many many things - life is not black and white on a whole host of issues hence why both sides can misrepresent to high heavens.

And the rest of your points?

Also, don't forget that the EU isn't this thing that happened despite us, we were a key member, one of the most powerful members. We voted in favour of over 95% of the rules, more than Germany and more than France. We are responsible for the EU in it's current state.

So, tell the class: what will the benefits be? What will happen to offset the investment that is currently draining out of the country? What will counter the fact that we've gone from the fastest growing economy in the G8 to the slowest? How will the lives of the average family get better. Go!

I've already said i'm not going to go through them all right now. It doesn't (as you've already found out to your cost) mean you are correct.

We're responsible for the EU in its current state? You mean the EU that's in an economic quagmire because of the self inflicted wound that is the Euro. Pull the other one.

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:24 pm I've already said i'm not going to go through them all right now. It doesn't (as you've already found out to your cost) mean you are correct.

Why not? Come on, tell us: what will get better?

Point out where I'm wrong, if it's so easy.

It's not easy or short as you're not an idiot so refuting what you say can't be done in one line answers! To be honest, we're still stuck in that rut of fighting the last war. Its irrelevant really now - we need to coalesce around what is the best direction to push things forward.

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:26 pm It's not easy or short as you're not an idiot so refuting what you say can't be done in one line answers! To be honest, we're still stuck in that rut of fighting the last war. Its irrelevant really now - we need to coalesce around what is the best direction to push things forward.

Why do we? More Brexiteer bullshit. It's not the fault of those who see Brexit as the folly it is that it's turned into a shitshow. Those who campaigned for Brexit should have had a plan AND THEY STILL FUCKING DON'T.

Why should those of us who know it's economic suicide get behind it? Fuck off with that bullshit.

GG firmly on the Brexit billable hours bandwagon

Forget the country. Each man for himself.

@ Rev. It isn't. You've become radicalised into believing a middle ground (even if you don't think it is better than staying in) is not possible. The idea that there are other available outcomes other than disaster has become impossible for you to believe.

Mito Man wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:30 pm GG firmly on the Brexit billable hours bandwagon

Forget the country. Each man for himself.

95 last week my friend - including 16 hours both Saturday and Sunday. Docs went out last night hence why i'm indulging myself in this - though sadly can't for much longer.

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:31 pm @ Rev. It isn't. You've become radicalised into believing a middle ground (even if you don't think it is better than staying in) is not possible. The idea that there are other available outcomes other than disaster has become impossible for you to believe.

No, I haven't become radicalised. The options are:

- Stay in and carry on as we were
- Leave but still be bound by the rules with no influence over them
- Crash out with no deal, no trade deals with any other country for years except under the terrible WTO rules

Every other option than staying in is worse than what we currently have. If you don't believe that, you need to explain which model is better and explain why.

I don't owe you any explanations Rev. I know you're angry but you need to get over it. I'm never going to convince you because you're coming at it from a perspective that it's just the end and an injustice so justifying things is just a waste of time.

We have one possibility of this not setting the UK back half a generation of development and that's if Germany crashes into a depression. That'll happen because Italy or Spain goes and China's property bubble will need to go pop first.

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:35 pm I don't owe you any explanations Rev. I know you're angry but you need to get over it.

You don't owe anyone an explanation, which is quite a relief as you don't appear to have one.

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:35 pm I don't owe you any explanations Rev. I know you're angry but you need to get over it. I'm never going to convince you because you're coming at it from a perspective that it's just the end and an injustice so justifying things is just a waste of time.

Not one single Brexiteer has ever even attempted to explain why they think any option is better whenever I've asked them, and I've asked a lot. You don't owe me an explanation but the fact that you can't even offer one speaks volumes. You have to take personal responsibility for the economic disaster and erosion of rights you voted for. Damn right I'm fucking angry and I won't get over it.

NotoriousREV wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:39 pm

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:35 pm I don't owe you any explanations Rev. I know you're angry but you need to get over it. I'm never going to convince you because you're coming at it from a perspective that it's just the end and an injustice so justifying things is just a waste of time.

Not one single Brexiteer has ever even attempted to explain why they think any option is better whenever I've asked them, and I've asked a lot. You don't owe me an explanation but the fact that you can't even offer one speaks volumes. You have to take personal responsibility for the economic disaster and erosion of rights you voted for. Damn right I'm fucking angry and I won't get over it.

NotoriousREV wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:39 pm

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:35 pm I don't owe you any explanations Rev. I know you're angry but you need to get over it. I'm never going to convince you because you're coming at it from a perspective that it's just the end and an injustice so justifying things is just a waste of time.

Not one single Brexiteer has ever even attempted to explain why they think any option is better whenever I've asked them, and I've asked a lot. You don't owe me an explanation but the fact that you can't even offer one speaks volumes. You have to take personal responsibility for the economic disaster and erosion of rights you voted for. Damn right I'm fucking angry and I won't get over it.

I've already given you a list of specific points and one about democracy/sovereignty. I literally don't know what you want from me

Do you mean by "any option is better" - one which increases GDP? Is that what you mean?

Well, it’s largely academic now, innit. I reckon there’ll be a Tory leadership kerfuffle, which will burn another 10 weeks or whatever it is. Then whichever soul-dead, venal shitwit wins will immediately be crucified in a Commons no-confidence vote, there will be a snap election and Corbyn will be in by Christmas. Brexit will be the least of our problems - and the headbangers won’t be happy till we drive all foreigners into the sea and re-invade India, so they can at least safely be ignored.

I have never been more grateful to be part of the globally-mobile metropolitan elite - our savings and resources should cushion us against the worst of it.

Interestingly given Somerset Asset Management’s recent establishment of an Irish investment vehicle in Dublin, it seems Jacob Rees-Mogg agrees with me.

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:19 pm I'll take one - don't have time to do them all. Tampons!

Rev is correct. The UK can set rates of VAT. What it cannot do is ZERO RATE for tampons because of their classification. This is why the EU actually released a statement noting it was going to provide further flexibility on this. That, so far as I'm aware, has not actually translated into action.

If the above is still not accurate though then do correct me with further info because i'm not interested in being wrong just to support an argument.

ETA: funny Rev took the same one. Tampons are already on the 5% rate. This doesn't support your suggestion you know what you're talking about. As with many many things - life is not black and white on a whole host of issues hence why both sides can misrepresent to high heavens.

Ok, so I'm going to take a hit of a couple of grand a year in income growth to save 5% tax on the other halfs monthly necessity at a couple of quid a pop.

Got another one?

Seriously, no one in the Brexit camp has explained this, they've only attacked remainers and refused to offer up the evidence and specifics showing where it could be better. If you can't offer more without excuses such as "I don't need to repeat myself" or "it's obvious", then I've got no other choice than to write you off as full of hot air, have I?