OV9

Don't see how that passes block exemption rules tbh.

Is this anything to do with preventing car thefts, I wonder? I mean, obviously car manufacturers wouldn't bypass making a quick buck at the same time..

Simon wrote: Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:02 am Don't see how that passes block exemption rules tbh.

Yeah this. Although I recently found out that Alfa do similar - the kit to read codes fully is tens of thousands of pounds, effectively making it dealer-level only. They seem to have found a way to stretch the rules to their advantage that's for sure.

On my car you just press a couple of buttons on the wheel to open up the service menu and move the rear pads into the service position. No faff, to secret and no special tools.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:18 am Although I recently found out that Alfa do similar - the kit to read codes fully is tens of thousands of pounds, effectively making it dealer-level only.

All manufacturers have done this forever, definitely not a new thing.

Simon wrote: Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:33 am On my car you just press a couple of buttons on the wheel to open up the service menu and move the rear pads into the service position. No faff, to secret and no special tools.

The alternative is to unplug the caliper and then jerry-rig a battery to wind the piston back.

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:53 am

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:18 am Although I recently found out that Alfa do similar - the kit to read codes fully is tens of thousands of pounds, effectively making it dealer-level only.

All manufacturers have done this forever, definitely not a new thing.

I don't think all manufacturers have. Taking BMW as an example, AFAIK the official BMW kit isn't required to undertake tasks, read codes etc. 3rd party equipment can do the same.

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:55 am

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:53 am

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:18 am Although I recently found out that Alfa do similar - the kit to read codes fully is tens of thousands of pounds, effectively making it dealer-level only.

All manufacturers have done this forever, definitely not a new thing.

I don't think all manufacturers have. Taking BMW as an example, AFAIK the official BMW kit isn't required to undertake tasks, read codes etc. 3rd party equipment can do the same.

Emphasis added. 3rd party can do some of it. Not all of it. You need a hacked version of the BMW software to cover everything and the 3rd party apps are built on hacking/reverse engineering the BMW app.

Are you saying there's no 3rd party devices for reading Alfa codes ?

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:53 am

Simon wrote: Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:33 am On my car you just press a couple of buttons on the wheel to open up the service menu and move the rear pads into the service position. No faff, to secret and no special tools.

The alternative is to unplug the caliper and then jerry-rig a battery to wind the piston back.

Till you plug it all back in and then the module says you aren’t in the same position I left you in, has a hissy fit and won’t release the brake again as it thinks there is a problem.

Not saying this will happen but we see crap like this on Siemens stuff and with how overly complex modern cars are I wouldn’t put it past them.

In conclusion, make things expensive for built in obsolescence so we can sell more crap and waste more resources.

Whinge moan.

Dave!

I've said it before but Musk is the biggest well known cunt in the world and despite that Teslas have build in code readers with all the functions which customers can access. Something any car with a screen can do but other manufacturers don't allow. Which makes me think how bad the other CEOs really are. They just have a better filter and aren't well known. Proper sadistic cunts.

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Mar 04, 2025 11:05 am

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:55 am

Sundayjumper wrote: Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:53 am

All manufacturers have done this forever, definitely not a new thing.

I don't think all manufacturers have. Taking BMW as an example, AFAIK the official BMW kit isn't required to undertake tasks, read codes etc. 3rd party equipment can do the same.

Emphasis added. 3rd party can do some of it. Not all of it. You need a hacked version of the BMW software to cover everything and the 3rd party apps are built on hacking/reverse engineering the BMW app.

Are you saying there's no 3rd party devices for reading Alfa codes ?

I think we might be at crossed-purposes here over apps vs. workshop diagnostics. My reading of the AMD post was that even with workshop diagnostics they're now being charged for basic services such as the handbrake release. But reading it back it could be that they've been trying to get away with just using a proprietary app.

Apps - yes, you're right that most have been limiting access for quite a while now over what can be done with more basic apps/devices.

Regarding Alfa - I can't recall the full story on that. I'll have to dig.

tl;dr - I'm confused

I know a tiny bit because I was researching the Autel code reader. The Stellantis cars seem to have everything locked out due to security concerns but paying £100 a year subscription will allow access (not really a security improvement if any person can buy a code reader and pay £100 for access you’d have thought, unless we’re talking about the financial security of Stellantis executives).
The code reader has a specific option for temporarily unlocking car gateways via the manufacturer. I’m guessing this is for stuff like that VW above. You pay a fee and it unlocks certain functions for a period of time.

Another reason I don’t particularly care about new cars.

Was just checking something and came across this explaining gateways https://www.autel.uk/manufacturer-secure-gateways/
I reckon this is all related to that EU cybersecurity update which killed off a lot of cars last year. But again, how secure is it if anyone can buy a code reader and pay a subscription for access
And then the EU bitch about right to repair

And the pricing for various brands
https://www.autel.uk/products/secure-gateway-tokens/

And they all seem to have their own rules. The Renault one is for accessing one car 3 times in 24 hours, so not even unlimited access if you're trying to troubleshoot something!

That's going to be a right pain and cost for independent garages that aren't marque specific.