OV9

ZedLeg wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2024 5:09 pm
Let’s make it simple, there will never be a mass exodus of humanity into space. It’s would need such a large shift in global politics and economics that we’ll all be dead before it happens.

We should be spending money improving here instead of trashing the place and looking for somewhere else to do it again.

Something like £267bil spent in the right places would solve world hunger.

It’s a logistics and will problem not an economic one.

I don't think you need a mass exodus, just enough to make a mass extinction event on earth (or indeed any colony) survivable. I agree preserving our planet should be the priority given that it is where we have evolved to live (along with our fellow lifeforms) and is therefore the most comfortable location.

TBH I don't think your £267bil estimate is anywhere near ballpark in reality, but I assume it's come from research somewhere which probably completely ignores the challenges associated with it and just said this is how much Xbil tonnes of food would cost right now. I just don't think our fragile economic system would be able to deal with such a change, food price inflation would go into orbit almost over night I expect.

That’s the problem isn’t it, capitalism would rather waste millions of tonnes of food than actually be helpful.

People would rather waste millions of tonnes of food than actually be helpful. Or at least helpful, right now. If enough people keep choosing humanitarianism at the ballot box maybe we'll get there.

The human race is an advanced ape with all those animal traits for better or worse. Our genetic legacy's distribution of empathy and desire for power put us at the apex on this planet for the last ten or twenty thousand years. If we get the chance to evolve more empathy over the next million years we might become the Trekian fantasy force for good.

After that self indulgent tangent, I'll drag this back to semi relevance. Did liberal democracy enable Musk to wield the power he does to push humans to Mars? And, as repulsive an individual as he is, is the system he exists in one of greater communal good than the alternatives?

Musk's plan to colonise the Moon, let alone Mars is completely insane

Can we create, occupy, and maintain a completed sealed (from the outside world) habitation on earth, or under the sea?

No

So why could we hope to do hit on the Moon or Mars?

Livestreaming your test subjects eyeballs freezing solid as the outer skin fails would be exactly on brand for him though.

DaveE wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:52 am Musk's plan to colonise the Moon, let alone Mars is completely insane

Can we create, occupy, and maintain a completed sealed (from the outside world) habitation on earth, or under the sea?

No

So why could we hope to do hit on the Moon or Mars?

<ring ring>

‘Ello - DomeTech Ltd.

A leak you say? Quadrant nine? We don’t usually cover nine mate. Listen, I can do you a favour, but I’ll have to charge a call-out fee mate, OK?

DaveE wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:52 am Musk's plan to colonise the Moon, let alone Mars is completely insane

Can we create, occupy, and maintain a completed sealed (from the outside world) habitation on earth, or under the sea?

No

So why could we hope to do hit on the Moon or Mars?

We couldn't hope to put a living creature in space less than 100 years ago... but you're right, must be completely technologically impossible, let's just give up.

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/01/ ... the-future

If we can't make this work, on earth, I'm not sure how we're going to do it on Mars

But hey, I'm sure some magical tech will come along...

No saying give it up duncs, just don’t believe a degenerate liar when he says we’re going to be on Mars this century

Getting to the moon is the space equivalent of london to Edinburgh, Mars is circumnavigating the globe.

I mean, we'll go to Mars.

One way...

Which is the reason we've not gone to Mars.

This is well worth watching...

I think without a doubt we'll have people on Mars this century but it will be more of a visit and 6 months on the planet rather than an entire colony or city of 1 million people which Elon keeps rattling on about.
The most sensible thing if you want an insurance policy for humans against extinction is to have a vast space station, in a distant orbit like the James Webb. And then make that self sufficient and fully independent somehow.

ZedLeg wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:41 am No saying give it up duncs, just don’t believe a degenerate liar when he says we’re going to be on Mars this century

Getting to the moon is the space equivalent of london to Edinburgh, Mars is circumnavigating the globe.

I just did the maths and it’s actually the same as going round the globe nine times with no support in that analogy.

Mito Man wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:51 am I think without a doubt we'll have people on Mars this century but it will be more of a visit and 6 months on the planet rather than an entire colony or city of 1 million people which Elon keeps rattling on about.
The most sensible thing if you want an insurance policy for humans against extinction is to have a vast space station, in a distant orbit like the James Webb. And then make that self sufficient and fully independent somehow.

While we’re talking pie in the sky, might as well make it a dyson sphere.

Some people stay in the cosy cave, some people push outwards. Outwards is where we should be pushing.

I remember the whole family being excited watching Brandon take off to go round the world in a balloon, so pushing for Mars at least gets people talking about it and clever people trying to figure out how.

Dave!

If it didn’t have the whiff of the ultra rich looking out for themselves and leaving us behind I would agree.

Let’s just say I’m be expecting Elysium not Star Trek.

It also doesn’t change that they have to solve basic problems like how to fuel a ship for 140000000 miles (double if they want to come back) and how you get all that ship off the ground.

That’s before you figure out how you have people live for more than 5 minutes on a dead planet.

I think getting to Mars, landing, taking off again is relatively simple albeit extremely inefficient. Just park a bunch of fuel resupply tanks in orbit of Mars. Refill starship 1/3 full before landing on Mars as gravity is only 40% of earth and there's much less atmosphere, take off, refill again and come back to earth.
Can probably pack a few years worth of freeze dried food on the resupply vessels too.

So that’s several large ships that’ll need to be built and sent to Mars, with the same basic problem of fuel to get there.

Living on mars is more than food too, will people be living in spacesuits? Will there be shelters with atmosphere?

Like, we struggle to survive in the more extreme areas of this planet. Mars is much worse