OV9

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:40 pm Shouldn't the VFM boost be based on taste? So, if a low cost pie tastes really good it gets a boost compared to a more expensive one that tastes about the same. However if the low cost option is awful then it doesn't get a boost as it represents poor value even if the cost is low.

Hmm. Maybe ? But only if you're basing entirely on taste. The cheaper ones will have an inherent VFM simply by being cheaper - if you're short of money and have five people coming to visit, the £1 pack (unless they're literally poisonous) is better VFM. Taste & VFM are actually semi-independent. You can have one or both or neither.

This is why it's very very difficult to make truly objective measurements. You tend to build the criteria to give you the answer you wanted in the first place

I agree, but I'm struggling with price (and lack of poisonous ingredients) being the key marker of VFM (and what if you *did* want to poison your guests? Then the poisonous pies would represent the best VFM). Perhaps we need a sliding scale with a base level. A £1 pack that tastes like you'd expect a £1 pack to taste only gets a small boost, but if it tasted like a £2.99 pack it would get a massive boost. Equally if the £2.99 pack tasted like a £1 pack it would get a hefty deduction.

So how about...

a score of 0-10 (or rather 10-0) for price with 10 being the cheapest in the sample and 0 being the most expensive. This is easily done mathematically.

a score of 0-10 for taste. This is obviously subjective but zero is reserved for the poisonous ones

Add the scores together to get a total. Or take the average of the two figures - this allows you to adjust the weighting between price & taste. If everyone also declares their household income we can use that to weight the importance of price; we will all have a different balance of priorities there.

(j/k)


Or multiply the two scores to get a score out of 100 and express it as a percentage ? Or change the pricing score to be 1-10 and then do <taste score> / <price score> to produce a ratio ? That guarantees the poisonous ones score zero, even if they're delicious, rather than the ten they would score by adding the values together. It'll actually be interesting to try all these approaches and see what happens.

Like I said, lots of ways to do this ! We need to see the data - @Gavster - get cracking

Rats, that doesn't work, the poisonous ones can't simultaneously score zero & ten for taste.

Add another category for healthiness ? That seems valid. There must be low fat versions out there, we should consider health impact vs. taste. The poisonous ones obviously score zero for health

I disagree about the healthiness being a relevant metric. Mince pies are by definition not healthy and shouldn't pretend (and how miserable would that be?).

I propose a completely different approach: drop out all consideration of cost from the perspective of the saying about knowing the price of everything, and the value of nothing.

Pies should be ranked purely on taste, mouth feel, and how eating it (them?) in that moment made you feel. Last metric ranking from 0 "unnecessary calories that made me feel a bit down" to 10 "I think I heard angels sing".

Might be a tad difficult to quantify into a formula, but I've got faith in your abilities!

All the pies are the same, only the packaging and price differ.

@DeskJockey That's a very good point. VFM in this context is about how people can save money, which means it is about low-cost items tasting as good as more expensive ones. Ergo the most expensive cannot receive a VFM bonus.

@mik and @Explosive Newt I appreciate the suggestions and would like to try them, however for these testing purposes I would codify those as non-traditional pies and the category I'm testing is strictly traditional mince pies, rather than any derivations of that category.

@Sundayjumper It feels like the right track that some kind of average or multiplier is applied between the taste and cost to calculate VFM, however I'm starting to think there might need to be a user judgement involved too.

And healthiness is definitely irrelevant for mince pies, they should never be judged by that metric!

I'm thinking of assigning the pies a category based on cost cheap/mid range/expensive and then after blind tasting a pie, to reveal it's cost category and rate the VFM based on my reaction.

Or, it needs to be a logic pathway such as:

(Low taste score range) and (high cost range) = minus 2 points
(Mid taste score range) and (high cost range) = minus 1 point
(High taste score range) and (high cost range) = no adjustment

(Low taste score range) and (mid cost range) = minus 1 points
(Mid taste score range) and (mid cost range) = no adjustment
(High taste score range) and (mid cost range) = plus 1 point

(Low taste score range) and (low cost range) = no adjustment
(Mid taste score range) and (low cost range) = plus 1 point
(High taste score range) and (low cost range) = plus 2 points

Gavster wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:15 am Or, it needs to be a logic pathway such as:

(Low taste score range) and (high cost range) = minus 2 points
(Mid taste score range) and (high cost range) = minus 1 point
(High taste score range) and (high cost range) = no adjustment

(Low taste score range) and (mid cost range) = minus 1 points
(Mid taste score range) and (mid cost range) = no adjustment
(High taste score range) and (mid cost range) = plus 1 point

(Low taste score range) and (low cost range) = no adjustment
(Mid taste score range) and (low cost range) = plus 1 point
(High taste score range) and (low cost range) = plus 2 points

If you value low, mid, high as 1, 2, 3 then that simplifies to <taste score> minus <cost score>.

Score taste 1-10
Cost 1-5

Taste/cost= tastiness per pound

I'm ready for the mega-test and this is officially a business expense because I'm filming it and posting it on TikTok

Asda price per pie is incorrect. I’d just catagorise them into cheap, middle and expensive to keep it simple for your audience.

And sort them alphabetically you heathen!

Gavster wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:35 pm I'm ready for the mega-test and this is officially a business expense because I'm filming it and posting it on TikTok

Ooh yeah

Received a nice hamper today with these in it.

I almost feel it is MY DUTY to put one aside and courier it to you @Gavster .

On the back of this thread I bought some M&S mince pies 2 weeks ago. The all butter ones and some smaller ones similar to what Mik posted on the previous page. Now I haven't had these in about 10 years and I was hoping maybe I would enjoy them now. After all I hated whisky back then and I'm practically a full blown alcoholic now.
The smaller ones were pure shit, definitely made worse by the cognac. The all butter ones were better but that's just because the pastry was decent, the mince was inedible again so I just packed them up for the goats. Who also found the mince filling inedible
Not suitable for consumption by man nor farm animal.

mik wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:03 pm Received a nice hamper today with these in it.

I almost feel it is MY DUTY to put one aside and courier it to you @Gavster .

Fuck me, they are very very good.

mik wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 11:03 pm Received a nice hamper today with these in it.

I almost feel it is MY DUTY to put one aside and courier it to you @Gavster .

I'll watch out for a carrier pigeon with a mince pie hanging from it

In the end my favourites this year were Harrods, followed by Waitrose the Sainsburys TTD, full rankings here:

We've got Plant Pioneers ones, because vegan. I quite like them though.

One of my local cafes is doing christmas buns this year, just their cinnamon buns with mincemeat instead of cinnamon butter. I'm not usually a fan of mincemeat but they're banging.

Booths (northern upmarket supermarket chain of awesomness) are doing spiced mince pies this year - might have to give those a whirl.

After his mega-test Gavster was so sick of mince pies that he sent half the batch to me for a second opinion I didn't tackle them in one sitting, and I didn't do detailed notes but it was interesting to compare thoughts.

Gavster wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:00 am In the end my favourites this year were Harrods, followed by Waitrose the Sainsburys TTD, full rankings here:

Agreed on Harrods. I didn't want to like them simply on principle, £10 feels like way too much for six mince pies, but they had by far the best pastry. Waitrose I was disappointed with tbh. Maybe my expectations were too high. Struggling to remember the rest !