OV9

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:33 am Independent are reporting that AZ have pulled out of a meeting with the EU...

AZ made an announcement last night that essentially confirmed everything Peston said. EU delays to contracts lost 3mo, which lost crucial time in ironing out manufacturing issues at the EU based facilities.

ETA - EU claims AZ has pulled out of the meeting. AZ say they haven't. Fook knows what's going down but seems to me that tensions need diffusing

And this is why you don’t shit where you eat.

Things are going well...

Won't be long before we're slapping export tariffs on vaccines heading to the EU and vice versa at this rate. What a bunch of total cvnts. It is exactly this sort of behaviour and prior ineptness that drove my vote in 2016. This is just the latest crisis that they've overseen, only this time it's significant numbers of lives on the line and everyone is watching.

What are the chances that if it had been the other way round and we needed the eu made stuff they’d turn round and say tough shit, you wanted out....

100% guaranteed certainty

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:57 pm Things are going well...

Won't be long before we're slapping export tariffs on vaccines heading to the EU and vice versa at this rate. What a bunch of total cvnts. It is exactly this sort of behaviour and prior ineptness that drove my vote in 2016. This is just the latest crisis that they've overseen, only this time it's significant numbers of lives on the line and everyone is watching.

I don't know what you expect the EU to do? Roll over and just accept that AZ are not going to fulfil the agreed amount in the given time frame?

If a supplier isnt going to meet their obligations, surely you engage with them and hold them to account?

Marv wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:31 pm I don't know what you expect the EU to do?

The EU is behaving exactly as I expected them to behave.
Which is one of the main reasons why I voted the way I did

Marv wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:31 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:57 pm Things are going well...

Won't be long before we're slapping export tariffs on vaccines heading to the EU and vice versa at this rate. What a bunch of total cvnts. It is exactly this sort of behaviour and prior ineptness that drove my vote in 2016. This is just the latest crisis that they've overseen, only this time it's significant numbers of lives on the line and everyone is watching.

I don't know what you expect the EU to do? Roll over and just accept that AZ are not going to fulfil the agreed amount in the given time frame?

If a supplier isnt going to meet their obligations, surely you engage with them and hold them to account?

This. It isn't the buyer's issue that the supplier can't deliver.

In other contexts that's a conversation I've had with customers many times. They buy a service or product and therefore expect the agreed outcomes to be delivered.

The UK would have done exactly the same, and rightly so, if the shoe had been on the other foot. It isn't, IMO, an "EU issue".

I'm sure all this squabbling and legal action is speeding up life saving production no end.

DeskJockey wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:57 pm

Marv wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:31 pm

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:57 pm Things are going well...

Won't be long before we're slapping export tariffs on vaccines heading to the EU and vice versa at this rate. What a bunch of total cvnts. It is exactly this sort of behaviour and prior ineptness that drove my vote in 2016. This is just the latest crisis that they've overseen, only this time it's significant numbers of lives on the line and everyone is watching.

I don't know what you expect the EU to do? Roll over and just accept that AZ are not going to fulfil the agreed amount in the given time frame?

If a supplier isnt going to meet their obligations, surely you engage with them and hold them to account?

This. It isn't the buyer's issue that the supplier can't deliver.

In other contexts that's a conversation I've had with customers many times. They buy a service or product and therefore expect the agreed outcomes to be delivered.

The UK would have done exactly the same, and rightly so, if the shoe had been on the other foot. It isn't, IMO, an "EU issue".

You’ve misunderstood how their contract (as noted by their CEO) has been stated to work. AZ are not legally obliged to supply a set amount by a set date so, in effect, it is the EUs issue unless they can allege a breach of their best efforts requirement.

Given the UK contract with AZ signed 3 months prior required UK plant reduction to go to the UK first, they would have to show that ‘best efforts’ extended to breaching a prior legally binding obligation to one of their other customers and diverting UK production to the EU (which is precisely what they’re now asking for).

Good luck with that. In fact, if they did do it (analysing in accordance with domestic English law), I would have thought the UK govt would have a claim against the EU for tortious inducement to breach of contract.

Has that been stated by both sides? It would seem that's the crux of the argument.

If AZ signed a contract binding them to achieving such targets with a product that had never been mass manufactured at the time, and is AFAIK non-profit, then their legal / commercial team want shooting. I mean, what would be in it for AZ apart from a lawsuit?

It’s not like you can strong arm someone on a non-profit product. I'd expect the response to be "if you don't want our vaccine, don't have it".

DeskJockey wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:00 am Has that been stated by both sides? It would seem that's the crux of the argument.

Pascal Soirot went on record to state that this was the case to rebut the EU's publicly made claims they had legal obligations to supply these doses. Allegedly the EU then threatened him with legal action for breach of confidentiality restrictions in disclosing the contract terms!

If I were the judge sitting on that case I'd throw it out as abuse of process or alternatively let them proceed and fail on the basis of
ex turpi causa non oritur actio and award costs to AZ given that the EU declaring what AZ's 'obligations' were in public is an equal breach of such confi restrictions assuming they do actually prohibit such non-disclosure...

Look, I have sympathy in that its hugely disappointing for the EU and may well cost lives but going around threatening to bring vexatious claims against AZ, cut off exports, etc. to save face because their sclerotic bureaucracy delayed the process is just a very bad look. Its exactly how you'd expect a disreputable dictatorship like China to act.

So in latest developments the Germans are now stating the AZ vaccine doesn't work for over 65s and the Belgians are raiding AZ's plant at the EU's bequest. Way to make friends and influence people guys

Didn’t a few EU countries go to throw money at some of the vaccine lot to earmark some vaccines early. Then the EU tell them they aren’t allowed and took another couple of months to arrange exactly the same thing themselves.

Or I’m having a brain fart.

Dave!

I think so Dave - there was similar for PPE in the the early days. Germany snagged supplies meaning Italy struggled to get enough when they really needed it - after all -The Italian Strain was the first strain to hit.

In other news, what the actual fvck is Sturgeon at ??

What's that mad wench doing now?

Threatening to release details about the Vaccine programme, stocks and orders to the EU despite Boris declaring that information as secret

Beany wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:13 pm What's that mad wench doing now?

Worldwide, I know which political leader in the UK is considered competent.

Gavin wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:22 pm

Beany wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:13 pm What's that mad wench doing now?

Worldwide, I know which political leader in the UK is considered competent.

At best deflecting from their own fvxk ups and lies? She is pretty good at that aye.