OV9

I’d say they would give out all 800k immediately as that offers maximum protection to the most people ASAP and resolves longer term storage issues. Pretty common sense.

Mito Man wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:00 pm I’d say they would give out all 800k immediately as that offers maximum protection to the most people ASAP and resolves longer term storage issues. Pretty common sense.

It's a two dose system, you don't get 95% protection if you don't get the second dose.

Give 800k Pfizer doses out to OAPs.
No new doses arrive but Oxford vaccine now on stream.
Give same 800k OAPs a booster of Oxford/AZ vaccine.
800k OAPs die owing to an idiosyncratic interaction between the vaccines causing overwhelming SIRS.
800k OAPs did not die of coronavirus.

For those that don’t understand my point:

Scenario 1 - you give 400k vaccines to 400k people as soon as possible.

Scenario 2 - you give 800k vaccines to 800k people as soon as possible.

In the immediate short term scenario 2 protects twice as many people.

Mito Man wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:04 pm For those that don’t understand my point:

Scenario 1 - you give 400k vaccines to 400k people as soon as possible.

Scenario 2 - you give 800k vaccines to 800k people as soon as possible.

In the immediate short term scenario 2 protects twice as many people.

I think everyone understands what you're saying, but what level of protection does a single dose provide? I haven't seen that data.

Explosive Newt wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:02 pm Give 800k Pfizer doses out to OAPs.
No new doses arrive but Oxford vaccine now on stream.
Give same 800k OAPs a booster of Oxford/AZ vaccine.
800k OAPs die owing to an idiosyncratic interaction between the vaccines causing overwhelming SIRS.
800k OAPs did not die of coronavirus.

That's probably the route they'll go for.

duncs500 wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:08 pm

Mito Man wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:04 pm For those that don’t understand my point:

Scenario 1 - you give 400k vaccines to 400k people as soon as possible.

Scenario 2 - you give 800k vaccines to 800k people as soon as possible.

In the immediate short term scenario 2 protects twice as many people.

I think everyone understands what you're saying, but what level of protection does a single dose provide? I haven't seen that data.

But everyone will be on a single dose for the first 3 weeks. Then you have to hope that the supply chain is good enough to source more doses in time.

Explosive Newt wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:02 pm Give 800k Pfizer doses out to OAPs.
No new doses arrive but Oxford vaccine now on stream.
Give same 800k OAPs a booster of Oxford/AZ vaccine.
800k OAPs die owing to an idiosyncratic interaction between the vaccines causing overwhelming SIRS.
800k OAPs did not die of coronavirus.

800k OAPs then rise from their graves just as researchers find out that mixing the doses results in zombification

duncs500 wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:08 pm

Mito Man wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:04 pm For those that don’t understand my point:

Scenario 1 - you give 400k vaccines to 400k people as soon as possible.

Scenario 2 - you give 800k vaccines to 800k people as soon as possible.

In the immediate short term scenario 2 protects twice as many people.

I think everyone understands what you're saying, but what level of protection does a single dose provide? I haven't seen that data.

I don't think there was a single dose arm in the Pfizer study, so I don't think we really know what protection a single dose provides. The licence would be for a dose + booster only.

They also presumably don't know how effective a dose with late or no booster is?

If I was in a position to decide, I'd only ever release as many initial doses as I had boosters. Anything else is just a gamble IMO.

duncs500 wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:07 pm They also presumably don't know how effective a dose with late or no booster is?

If I was in a position to decide, I'd only ever release as many initial doses as I had boosters. Anything else is just a gamble IMO.

Is anyone actually seriously suggesting anything else, or is this just Karen on Facebooks thoughts being repeated like it actually mattered?

Beany wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:39 pm

duncs500 wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:07 pm They also presumably don't know how effective a dose with late or no booster is?

If I was in a position to decide, I'd only ever release as many initial doses as I had boosters. Anything else is just a gamble IMO.

Is anyone actually seriously suggesting anything else, or is this just Karen on Facebooks thoughts being repeated like it actually mattered?

No, I was initially just asking the question as I hadn't seen it anywhere and wondered if someone had. Then Mito started spouting some nonsense, but I have just read that they are indeed keeping the second dose back and doing an initial 400k vaccinations as is sensible.

Yeah, I mean, as I understand it, the two-stage vaccine is >90% effective. I'm gonna guess that one stage of that is...nowhere near that effective. Otherwise it wouldn't be a two stage vaccine, arf.

So suggestions that a major pharma company would have their name attached to an ineffectual rollout of a vaccine....yeah no. Just no. They just flat out wouldn't supply it, period, if a non-recommended dosage method was suggested.

Fucks sake people use some common sense, eh?

It’s not stupid if they get their shit together and manage to send out the second dose in time for the 3 week booster. Christ.

Mito Man wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:33 pm It’s not stupid if they get their shit together and manage to send out the second dose in time for the 3 week booster. Christ.

And if there's hold ups in the logistics or manufacturing, that's just a risk you're willing to take? You might just be worse than BoJo.

Pfizer's submission to the FDA is available for reads: https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download - suggests actually there is good protection following the first jab. Nontheless, it is only licenced in a two dose administration in the UK, so two doses is what we will be getting.

I'm not sure wheeling an old lady down a corridor backs up the 2 mtr narrative when theres 20 nurses less than that clapping. Progress tho, can only be thankful for that.

https://www.thelancet.com/lancet/articl ... 20)32661-1

Lancet publication of the Oxford vaccine trial now too. 90% low/standard dose efficacy, 60% on standard/standard as publicised. Perhaps more interestingly, the low/standard dosing was also protective against asymptomatic infection, something I have not seen data on from the Pfizer jab. This would make it useful for vaccinating the population to reduce asymptomatic spread.