OV9

Posted: **Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:45 pm**

integrale_evo wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:37 pm Didn’t we have this discussion back in March when people were getting told off for buying Easter eggs because they weren’t essential...

Yip....

People getting flack for buying anything which wasn't bread, milk & toilet roll.

What an absolute clusterfuck this continues to be.

And as expected, Scotland has to be different, so we're getting five tiers rather than three. Which is two better.... and only needs an 11 page PDF to explain it all.

Posted: **Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:17 pm**

Could be worse, could be in Wales

To go in our local you now have to order a pie and only while you are still eating your pie can you order and drink alcohol. For me this is no problem as I'll go to the gym (still allowed) but for people who don't see other folk day to day other than in the pub it's a big deal.

It was all ok in Summer but can see lots of very miserable people in the next few weeks / months.

Posted: **Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:39 pm**

Its a very interesting demonstration really of how the more socialist your government is the more desperate they are to control everything and micromanage and your life will be more miserable as a result because the underlying rule is that whatever a council official or minister does or decrees will be ill thought through, counterproductive or ideologically driven.

My intial gut reaction to all of this with my classical liberal hat on was that restrictions of the kind we had during full lockdown are never justifiable, even where people die as a result. I thought perhaps this was a bit extreme and this is an edge case where you can justify it, but the longer it goes on the more I'm tilting back towards that view...

Where you restrict the ability of people to buy non-essential goods to protect people that could shield but choose not to... that seems like skewed logic to me.

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:42 am**

Because lots of people who get it don’t die but still need hospital treatment and suffer long term effects. Many of those who wouldn’t be classed as vulnerable or need shielding.

Because shielding isn’t foolproof, look how infections rip through carehomes where it’s easy to isolate residents and staff should already have incredibly strict hygiene standards. See the heat maps from the north where infections start in the young and health and gradually spread up through the age range to the most vulnerable despite existing distancing restrictions.

What do you suggest? Not bother treating people who get infected and let natural selection take its course? The measures to slow the spread are all about slowing hospital admissions so they’re not overwhelmed which could lead to a massive spike in non Covid deaths.

No, I don’t enjoy the restrictions, no I don’t want to see the economy ruined, but I also don’t wasn’t to see bodies being piled up in containers outside hospitals and a highly infectious disease allowed to rip through the population leaving huge proportions of the workforce unable to do so due to sickness and potentially half a million people dead which in itself has massive economic consequences.

Other countries around the world have shown that strict and targeted lockdowns really do work to quickly suppress the virus. Unfortunately too many people in the uk think they know better and ignore everything they’re told because all politicians and government figures are always corrupt liars in it for themselves and are part of some international conspiracy theory to control the masses.

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:51 am**

GG. wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:39 pm Its a very interesting demonstration really of how the more socialist your government is the more desperate they are to control everything and micromanage and your life will be more miserable as a result because the underlying rule is that whatever a council official or minister does or decrees will be ill thought through, counterproductive or ideologically driven.

My intial gut reaction to all of this with my classical liberal hat on was that restrictions of the kind we had during full lockdown are never justifiable, even where people die as a result. I thought perhaps this was a bit extreme and this is an edge case where you can justify it, but the longer it goes on the more I'm tilting back towards that view...

Where you restrict the ability of people to buy non-essential goods to protect people that could shield but choose not to... that seems like skewed logic to me.

What a load of shite

There has been no socialism to any part of the response in this country. It’s been flip flopping between trying to protect an economy that was already broken while taking as little responsibility for it as you can.

If we had gone into a full lockdown early with proper state support for people we may have already broken the back of this. As it is we’re limping along with no real end in sight.

The worst of it is that we’re starting to see that a lot of people who catch COVID are still struggling weeks and months later. Some with permanent organ damage. We’re going to be dealing with this for years to come.

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:33 am**

integrale_evo wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:42 am Because lots of people who get it don’t die but still need hospital treatment and suffer long term effects. Many of those who wouldn’t be classed as vulnerable or need shielding.

Because shielding isn’t foolproof, look how infections rip through carehomes where it’s easy to isolate residents and staff should already have incredibly strict hygiene standards. See the heat maps from the north where infections start in the young and health and gradually spread up through the age range to the most vulnerable despite existing distancing restrictions.

What do you suggest? Not bother treating people who get infected and let natural selection take its course? The measures to slow the spread are all about slowing hospital admissions so they’re not overwhelmed which could lead to a massive spike in non Covid deaths.

No, I don’t enjoy the restrictions, no I don’t want to see the economy ruined, but I also don’t wasn’t to see bodies being piled up in containers outside hospitals and a highly infectious disease allowed to rip through the population leaving huge proportions of the workforce unable to do so due to sickness and potentially half a million people dead which in itself has massive economic consequences.

Other countries around the world have shown that strict and targeted lockdowns really do work to quickly suppress the virus. Unfortunately too many people in the uk think they know better and ignore everything they’re told because all politicians and government figures are always corrupt liars in it for themselves and are part of some international conspiracy theory to control the masses.

Harry speaks the logical truth, of everyone just did as they were told then this simply would have been much much less of an issue.

All generations seem to look at how it affects them and not how their actions affect the actual spread.

Old people - well I’ve not got many years left so I’ll not be locked up. Essential trip to garden centres awaits....

Middle aged people - well how can I go out to dinner ? It’s ok I’ll take my never washed mask and wipe my hands and still see anyone I want, it’s ok.

Young people - But I want a drink!!!! Waa waa but I’ll be ok as young people aren’t really dying.

As an outsider looking in it must be quite pathetic how each of our generations looks at what they call essential or what they can’t survive without.

Dave!

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:52 am**

Well why don't you clean your mask, clean your hands properly and stop seeing anyone you want Dave!?

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:01 am**

ZedLeg wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:51 am
If we had gone into a full lockdown early with proper state support for people we may have already broken the back of this.

Come off it zed, eradicate the virus and close the borders forever more? As long is it's doing laps of the world it will always come back, so you're basically left with a zero immunity population and restrictions forever.

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:11 am**

duncs500 wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:01 am
ZedLeg wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:51 am
If we had gone into a full lockdown early with proper state support for people we may have already broken the back of this.
Come off it zed, eradicate the virus and close the borders forever more? As long is it's doing laps of the world it will always come back, so you're basically left with a zero immunity population and restrictions forever.

I didn’t say completely eradicate it, it would be much easier to control small outbreaks from incoming visitors etc if it wasn’t still spreading all over the place though.

If the government had cared more about containing the virus than getting people back to work we might be having an easier time now.

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:23 am**

Don't know about anyone else, but I'm really feeling bad for the small service/hospitality businesses.

Wife and I went to one of our favourite pubs in town the other night, they're implementing all the rules but you can see that they're struggling with the balance of needing more staff for table service. No space indoors, took a while for someone to seat us and to order, we asked for some crisps when they finally brought out the drinks which they then forgot. By this time we were getting cold so asked for the bill and told them not to worry about the crisps, but the landlord came out and said he was sorry and that the drinks were on him. I told him I understood how difficult to was for them and that it was fine, but he insisted.

Tried another pub that looked pretty quiet, but they turned us away at the door due to being full so we just decided to call it quits and go home.

There was a food market in town Saturday so bought probably more than we usually would I think because I'm just worried about these small independent businesses. I really feel for them, I can see all around us that they are doing their best to make a go of it, but I don't know how long they can go on like this.

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:41 am**

They must be suffering. The amount of extra work they have to do with a significantly reduced earnings potential is clearly not helping. But then so aren't people.

Took the kids out for a walk yesterday and stopped at a small cafe/tea room for lunch. We sat outside (sheltered and it was nice-ish weather), but several groups came walking up. Each time they asked them to scan the QR code on the door before being let in and of the three groups we saw arrive, none of them had the app and all looked a bit surprised when asked to scan it.

We've had a few more takeaways than normal and have used the restaurants we would otherwise have gone to. Thinking of going out for a meal next week, see about the logistics.

EDIT: forgot to add, that what then really blows my mind are those establishments that offer FSM off their own back and bottom line despite the hardship they're suffering. They deserve to be helped, but obviously the MPs think differently.

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:43 am**

This is my point, the path the government has set us on is forcing small businesses and workers to bear the brunt of the losses while the richest get richer.

Business as usual for them while everyone else suffers.

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:50 am**

DeskJockey wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:41 am
Took the kids out for a walk yesterday and stopped at a small cafe/tea room for lunch. We sat outside (sheltered and it was nice-ish weather), but several groups came walking up. Each time they asked them to scan the QR code on the door before being let in and of the three groups we saw arrive, none of them had the app and all looked a bit surprised when asked to scan it.

That is surprising, but I guess if you go out a fair bit you know you're going to be asked, where as that might have been their first foray out for a while.

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:16 pm**

Rich B wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:52 am Well why don't you clean your mask, clean your hands properly and stop seeing anyone you want Dave!?

I do.

Not been in a group since March.

Dave!

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:46 pm**

Went to Spoon's for breakfast this morning. Check out their rules here

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:48 pm**

They know their audience!

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:52 pm**

Rich B wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:48 pm They know their audience!

It was actually quite nice today and not full of stinky old geezers with their walking sticks

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:57 pm**

ZedLeg wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:51 am
GG. wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:39 pm Its a very interesting demonstration really of how the more socialist your government is the more desperate they are to control everything and micromanage and your life will be more miserable as a result because the underlying rule is that whatever a council official or minister does or decrees will be ill thought through, counterproductive or ideologically driven.

My intial gut reaction to all of this with my classical liberal hat on was that restrictions of the kind we had during full lockdown are never justifiable, even where people die as a result. I thought perhaps this was a bit extreme and this is an edge case where you can justify it, but the longer it goes on the more I'm tilting back towards that view...

Where you restrict the ability of people to buy non-essential goods to protect people that could shield but choose not to... that seems like skewed logic to me.
What a load of shite

There has been no socialism to any part of the response in this country. It’s been flip flopping between trying to protect an economy that was already broken while taking as little responsibility for it as you can.

If we had gone into a full lockdown early with proper state support for people we may have already broken the back of this. As it is we’re limping along with no real end in sight.

The worst of it is that we’re starting to see that a lot of people who catch COVID are still struggling weeks and months later. Some with permanent organ damage. We’re going to be dealing with this for years to come.

You clearly didn't understand the point.

Scotland and Wales have more socialist governance. Both jurisdictions favoured more restrictions than England. This is a point about the predilections of a left wing government towards curbs on freedom - it's inherent in their worldview.

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:19 pm**

I understood the point, it’s debatable whether the SNP are actually particularly socialist. More opportunistic than anything. It’s not debatable that they haven’t been any more socialist than the UK government on the handling of this.

As for the last part the word your looking for is authoritarian, which has nothing to do with whether a government is left or right wing.

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:26 pm**

So the socialists have proven themselves more authoritarian than the 'conservatives' (I use that word advisedly as Boris is not really a conservative in any meaningful sense). I'll take that.

I think you're on a sticky wicket arguing that either the Scottish or Welsh nationalists are not socialist (or at least not more socialist than the English conservatives). SNP flagship policies revolve around giving stuff away - whether that be prescriptions or higher education. Either that or magicing money to fund an independent country that is not fiscally viable.

OV9

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