It’s time for another forum cycle/vehicle disagreement

[Rich B]

No - as it's within 10%...

Setting the speed limits and enforcing them are two very different things. Only a tiny fraction of the road network is "policed" by Speed cameras etc but the limits still exist. Limits are only ever enforced AFTER a speeder is caught.

Should be the same for cyclists.

so it's not really about safety for you, it's about punishing them for getting away with stuff you can't as a driver?

No quite the opposite - it's all about safety for me but the only way you get that safety is to incentivise people with the potential threat of financial cost. and the only way you can have that incentive is to enshrine it into law.

but the stats prove that it would make more of an impact on cyclist safety to ban them wearing dark clothes. Why aren't you asking for that instead?

[Rich B]

This thread is very well named btw!

[tim]

The problem with that tweet is, it doesn't give enough context, and the fact it's a tweet on the most polarised anonymous tribal hell-scape. They were never to get a bunch of replies supporting it because the people who are capable of using all parts of their brain, being pragmatic about a situation and seeing both sides of a scenario are going to be drowned out by the idiot cycling fraternity and the idiot anti-cycling fraternity mixed in with the idiot anti-police fraternity all going at each other.

I don't think cyclists should be subjected to a speed limit for many reasons, mostly around the common sense application of it. I do think ALL road users should equally and fully consider all other road users and how their actions might be perceived by or affect them.

For all we know, the bunch of cyclists involved might have had a perfectly reasonable conversation with the officer that spoke to them, and accepted that other road users may not reasonably expect a group of cyclists to appear at a speed well over what would be considered usual, and then gone about their ride with a little bit more to think about than they did before. Or they might have been apoplectic with rage and furiously tweeting about it. We don't know.

Courtesy and restraint should be a hall mark of all road users. It's not hard.

[Swervin_Mervin]

The problem with that tweet is, it doesn't give enough context, and the fact it's a tweet on the most polarised anonymous tribal hell-scape. They were never to get a bunch of replies supporting it because the people who are capable of using all parts of their brain, being pragmatic about a situation and seeing both sides of a scenario are going to be drowned out by the idiot cycling fraternity and the idiot anti-cycling fraternity mixed in with the idiot anti-police fraternity all going at each other.

I don't think cyclists should be subjected to a speed limit for many reasons, mostly around the common sense application of it. I do think ALL road users should equally and fully consider all other road users and how their actions might be perceived by or affect them.

For all we know, the bunch of cyclists involved might have had a perfectly reasonable conversation with the officer that spoke to them, and accepted that other road users may not reasonably expect a group of cyclists to appear at a speed well over what would be considered usual, and then gone about their ride with a little bit more to think about than they did before. Or they might have been apoplectic with rage and furiously tweeting about it. We don't know.

Courtesy and restraint should be a hall mark of all road users. It's not hard.

I don't think a more correct post has ever graced this board, any of its previous incarnations or, in fact, the entire internet.

[Jobbo]

I never understand how speed on one mode of transport is ok when on another it isnt. Surely it's the speed limit whatever you are on.

What about a van on a dual carriageway? What about an HGV? A tractor?

Different vehicles have different speed limits. That's what the law says. If anyone wants the law changed, campaign for it. If you were stopped in your car for driving at more than 60mph on a dual carriageway to be told you're exceeding the speed limit for a van, then have the police force tweet about it, how would you feel?

[Jobbo]

Courtesy and restraint should be a hall mark of all road users. It's not hard.

Yes, including traffic police who should not stop people who aren't breaking the law. Good way to lose respect

[tim]

Bloody hell Swerv, did I out-Jobbo Jobbo?!

[Jobbo]

but the stats prove that it would make more of an impact on cyclist safety to ban them wearing dark clothes. Why aren't you asking for that instead?

Oh god, this is going to turn into a pro/anti helmet thread soon isn't it

[Gavster]

Cyclists should be allowed to go fast because it's fun*

* in reality @tim's post is basically spot on

[tim]

Courtesy and restraint should be a hall mark of all road users. It's not hard.

Yes, including traffic police who should not stop people who aren't breaking the law. Good way to lose respect

I disagree with you there. Useful words of advice delivered in an appropriate way does no harm in my view. I'm fairly sure Police are allowed to talk to MOP even if they are not breaking any laws.

[tim]

Also I doubt it was an actual serving traffic officer who made that tweet. It'll be some kid in the social media dept churning it out, without any thought.

[Rich B]

Courtesy and restraint should be a hall mark of all road users. It's not hard.

Yes, including traffic police who should not stop people who aren't breaking the law. Good way to lose respect

I disagree with you there. Useful words of advice delivered in an appropriate way does no harm in my view. I'm fairly sure Police are allowed to talk to MOP even if they are not breaking any laws.

as Jobbo said-

"If you were stopped in your car for driving at more than 60mph on a dual carriageway to be told you're exceeding the speed limit for a van, then have the police force tweet about it, how would you feel?"

[Jobbo]

Courtesy and restraint should be a hall mark of all road users. It's not hard.

Yes, including traffic police who should not stop people who aren't breaking the law. Good way to lose respect

I disagree with you there. Useful words of advice delivered in an appropriate way does no harm in my view. I'm fairly sure Police are allowed to talk to MOP even if they are not breaking any laws.

The police do have the power to stop drivers or motor vehicles and cyclists without needing a suspicion that an offence is being committed (s163 Road Traffic Act 1988) so I can't complain about them stopping people. However, delivering a word of advice: such as 'you're not breaking the law' and then publicly announcing this fact is not going to achieve anything at all except justified ridicule.

If you're not driving or cycling then they don't have the power to stop you unless they have suspicion of committing an offence, though: https://www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-sto ... our-rights

[tim]

You're making an assumption to try and prove a point and further an argument. Have you tried Twitter? You might like it.

You don't know what the officer said to them. I very much doubt they rattled past with the B&T going, handbraked to a halt and had them all up against the wall for "breaking the speed limit", especially if they were traffic cops.

[tim]

However, delivering a word of advice: such as 'you're not breaking the law' and then publicly announcing this fact is not going to achieve anything at all except justified ridicule.

You're judging the officer(s) involved against what some social media twonk in the comms dept has posted. Like I said, the tweet didn't have enough context to show whether this was some Judge Dredd cops meeting out THE LAW or, or pulling up alongside at some lights and saying "hey lads, can I have a word?".

[tim]

https://twitter.com/MikeyCycling

This guy seems nice.

[dinny_g]

Why aren't you asking for that instead?

Because the cyclists were not pulled over and spoken to about wearing black clothes...

Come on Rich, you're not new to the internet...

[Jobbo]

https://twitter.com/MikeyCycling

This guy seems nice.

Yeah, he's already known to be a bell.

As for your previous posts addressed to me: you're not on Twitter now I'm not judging anything; the social media person will not have made something up, so they only shared online some basic details of what happened and referred solely to speed. So I'm not assuming anything. I am criticising both the stop, even though it was legal, based on the statement that it was due to their speed and I am criticising the fact that it was tweeted at all.

I also added some links to the law rather than making assumptions about it.

[Rich B]

Why aren't you asking for that instead?

Because the cyclists were not pulled over and spoken to about wearing black clothes...

Come on Rich, you're not new to the internet...

Well yes, we all agree they were pulled over for no reason.

[dinny_g]

No they were stopped for a good reason, it just wasn't because they were breaking any law