It’s time for another forum cycle/vehicle disagreement

[Swervin_Mervin]

They stopped them for doing nothing wrong. Must have been an interesting conversation!

See above about riding carelessly/incosiderately or dangerously. 40mph through a 30mph limit around unsighted bends could have been judged to be pushing the limits of what's acceptable. Perfectly reasonable imo.

sounds like more "making up bullshit issues" to justify over stretching authority.

they're either breaking the law or they're not.

Discussing it with a keen cyclist in the office and he's firmly of the view that talking to cyclists about that sort of speed if it's in a fairly inappropriate place is perfectly acceptable. It got me wondering about Stopping Sight Distances actually, because in the location they were cycling the bigger safety issue was probably more to themselves and whether they would be able to stop safely in time if, say, they rounded a bend and a tractor had pulled out.

Chances are they could stop, but chances also are that they'd have gone over the handle bars. I don't think there's any firm data on SSDs for bicycles, but at those sorts of speeds they would likely be higher than for other vehicles.

Whilst I agree that the tweet may have been misjudged, or badly phrased, if it raises awareness to some cyclists about the potential risks of travelling at such speeds then where is the harm?

[dinny_g]

Bottom line, we're all making changes to our road use in order to make roads safer for all users:
- 20 mph zones in Wales
- 2 m passing rules around cyclists
- changes in priority rules for pedestrians etc at junctions

et al...

I feel cyclists should be bound to speed limits like any other road user. That particular group didn't break any laws - but the laws should be changed.

and lets me honest, your typical commuter type cyclists is never going to top 30 mph in built up areas and I'll guarantee that the majority of that group in the vid had some sort of speed indication on their handlebars so the "They don't need to have a speedo" argument doesn't wash...

[Rich B]

Bottom line, we're all making changes to our road use in order to make roads safer for all users:
- 20 mph zones in Wales
- 2 m passing rules around cyclists
- changes in priority rules for pedestrians etc at junctions

et al...

I feel cyclists should be bound to speed limits like any other road user. That particular group didn't break any laws - but the laws should be changed.

and lets me honest, your typical commuter type cyclists is never going to top 30 mph in built up areas and I'll guarantee that the majority of that group in the vid had some sort of speed indication on their handlebars so the "They don't need to have a speedo" argument doesn't wash...

Should a typical commuter doing 27mph in a 20mph zone should be stopped and lectured about careless riding?

[dinny_g]

Yes

[Rich B]

Yes

21mph in a 20?

[mik]

IMHO the law should apply to all road users. Including horses & foxes.

It wasn't a big issue in the past as instances of cyclists going over 30 in a built up area were few. But now our governments are throwing 20mph limits around everywhere - cyclists will regularly breach this.

[Rich B]

IMHO the law should apply to all road users. Including horses & foxes.

It wasn't a big issue in the past as instances of cyclists going over 30 in a built up area were few. But now our governments are throwing 20mph limits around everywhere - cyclists will regularly breach this.

what are the stats to back up the need for this?

[mik]

what are the stats to back up the need for this?

I'm not sure what stats you seek?

[Rich B]

what are the stats to back up the need for this?

I'm not sure what stats you seek?

well if you're suggesting to change an entire piece of legislation and create a huge loop hole where police will need to prove someone is aware of their speeding, etc... I presume there's some pretty blatant stats showing how many lives will be saved?

[jamcg]

what are the stats to back up the need for this?

I'm not sure what stats you seek?

well if you're suggesting to change an entire piece of legislation and create a huge loop hole where police will need to prove someone is aware of their speeding, etc... I presume there's some pretty blatant stats showing how many lives will be saved?

100 across 10 years is enough to drop the whole of wales to 20mph, so if you save 0.83 people per month then apparently that’s worth doing

[mik]

what are the stats to back up the need for this?

I'm not sure what stats you seek?

well if you're suggesting to change an entire piece of legislation and create a huge loop hole where police will need to prove someone is aware of their speeding, etc... I presume there's some pretty blatant stats showing how many lives will be saved?

I've verified that 100% of me is of the opinion that the same rules of the road should apply to all road users.

If tomorrow someone invents a new wigit / hoverboard / whatever that can be used to travel on our roads, I will feel that they also need to not fly/hover/schmoodle through red lights, not turn right from left hand lanes, not exceed the speed limit - even though (as they have just been invented) I will probably have no statistics relating to hover-board related road injuries to back up this opinion.

[Rich B]

I'm not sure what stats you seek?

well if you're suggesting to change an entire piece of legislation and create a huge loop hole where police will need to prove someone is aware of their speeding, etc... I presume there's some pretty blatant stats showing how many lives will be saved?

I've verified that 100% of me is of the opinion that the same rules of the road should apply to all road users.

If tomorrow someone invents a new wigit / hoverboard / whatever that can be used to travel on our roads, I will feel that they also need to not fly/hover/schmoodle through red lights, not turn right from left hand lanes, not exceed the speed limit - even though (as they have just been invented) I will probably have no statistics relating to hover-board related road injuries to back up this opinion.

bikes have been around for over 100 years though.

[Swervin_Mervin]

There were 15 pedestrian fatalities between 2016-2021 involving 1 pedal cycle, out of a total of 2,551 ped fatalities in total. 66 in the same period involved 1 motorcycle. 1,451 involved 1 car.

There were 101 cyclist fatalities in the same period involving no other vehicles and 4 involving another ped cycle.

See:

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... edestrians

and

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... sheet-2021

Do with that what you wish

[Mito Man]

If we ban cycling completely we will save millions of lives over the course of the lifespan of the earth.

[Rich B]

There were 15 pedestrian fatalities between 2016-2021 involving 1 pedal cycle, out of a total of 2,551 ped fatalities in total. 66 in the same period involved 1 motorcycle. 1,451 involved 1 car.

There were 101 cyclist fatalities in the same period involving no other vehicles and 4 involving another ped cycle.

See:

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... edestrians

and

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... sheet-2021

Do with that what you wish

doesn't really help prove anything about speed limits - or does it?

[Rich B]

There is a stat about "travelling too fast for conditions" (which doesn't mean any limit) which is 8th on the list of contributory factors a couple behind "wearing dark clothing".

So it would be more effective to ban cyclists wearing black.

[dinny_g]

Yes

21mph in a 20?

No - as it's within 10%...

Setting the speed limits and enforcing them are two very different things. Only a tiny fraction of the road network is "policed" by Speed cameras etc but the limits still exist. Limits are only ever enforced AFTER a speeder is caught.

Should be the same for cyclists.

[Rich B]

Yes

21mph in a 20?

No - as it's within 10%...

Setting the speed limits and enforcing them are two very different things. Only a tiny fraction of the road network is "policed" by Speed cameras etc but the limits still exist. Limits are only ever enforced AFTER a speeder is caught.

Should be the same for cyclists.

so it's not really about safety for you, it's about punishing them for getting away with stuff you can't as a driver?

[Beany]

Cops have a word with a bunch of lycra fetishists riding a bit quick, world ends, weather at 11

[dinny_g]

21mph in a 20?

No - as it's within 10%...

Setting the speed limits and enforcing them are two very different things. Only a tiny fraction of the road network is "policed" by Speed cameras etc but the limits still exist. Limits are only ever enforced AFTER a speeder is caught.

Should be the same for cyclists.

so it's not really about safety for you, it's about punishing them for getting away with stuff you can't as a driver?

No quite the opposite - it's all about safety for me but the only way you get that safety is to incentivise people with the potential threat of financial cost. and the only way you can have that incentive is to enshrine it into law.