OV9

It's genuinely LOLworthy.

Given Ukraine's recent ballsy, punching-above-weight performance in this conflict, it's entirely believable that they smashed the hull of the ship.

But even if they didn't, and the Russian Navy are so incompetent as to be incapable of doing the single most basic task on a ship - preventing fire, because if your have a fire on a ship there's literally no where to hide, and most seas aren't temperate enough to allow you to live long if your go for a swim - Ukraine still win on the PR front.

It'd almost be tempting to go with the Russian narrative because it makes them look not just incompetent, but a genuine danger to themselves.

It's incredible.

And the sinking maybe happened in a particularly deep part of the sea, where it won’t be found easily, so unfortunately we’ll never see the evidence to prove it definitely did not get hit by a missile.

It’s all totes legit.

Enough with the memes and jokes, we need to hear Meghan's opinion.

My worry is that Putin is not the kind of guy to take kindly to being humiliated, he does have some more serious firepower that remains unused.

From the FT:

duncs500 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:26 am My worry is that Putin is not the kind of guy to take kindly to being humiliated, he does have some more serious firepower that remains unused.

This is true and it’s always been on western minds that he needs to be given a face-saving out rather than forcing him into a corner. So letting Russian forces withdraw from Kyiv rather than pursuing them lets him pretend it’s all part of his plan.

Realpolitik is going to kick in. Recent complaints about the west supplying arms to Ukraine is a tacit admission that it’s working. The sinking of the Moskva has demonstrated that none of the Black Sea fleet is safe. So despite the mind-bendingly obtuse propaganda put out by the Russian state I’m sure they are well aware this is not going very well.

And everyone is still baffled by what Putin / Kremlin think "victory" would be. Mariupol & land bridge to Crimea, fair enough, that's a nice thing to have, but at the expense of isolation from the western world for a couple of generations ? And consequently relying on China as the only customer for their oil & gas ? China is way more commercially savvy than Russia. They're going to take full advantage of being the only buyer in town.

Sundayjumper wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 9:46 am China is way more commercially savvy than Russia. They're going to take full advantage of being the only buyer in town.

By all accounts they already are. Russia selling to china at a loss

jamcg wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:38 am

Sundayjumper wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 9:46 am China is way more commercially savvy than Russia. They're going to take full advantage of being the only buyer in town.

By all accounts they already are. Russia selling to china at a loss

Yep. And that was all signed off back when Russia had other options ! Russia is so, so fcuked over this.

Sundayjumper wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:41 am

jamcg wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:38 am

Sundayjumper wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 9:46 am China is way more commercially savvy than Russia. They're going to take full advantage of being the only buyer in town.

By all accounts they already are. Russia selling to china at a loss

Yep. And that was all signed off back when Russia had other options ! Russia is so, so fcuked over this.

That's the funniest part. China can now name thier price, and Russia has basically no choice but to agree.

Right up until they run out of easy wells to tap, which they already are, hence trying to get to Siberian reserves - the Siberian reserves are far harder to get to and they were relying on Western tech and skills to reach, tech that's how gone, after Russian oligarches stripped out home grown talent because Western engineering skills meant they could massively skim off the top of contracts, etc.

Recent rumours abound that Russia tried to pay some upcoming (maturing? Basically, due for payment) sovereign debt in Rubles, and the lenders pointed to the contractual obligation to pay in nothing but US dollars, and told them to get those within 30 days. Dollars Russia has no access to. And likely won't for a good long while.

It really doesn't matter (on a macro, geopolitical scale at least) what happens now - Russia are already fucked, even if they withdraw and ask really nicely to be let back in from the cold.

Beany wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:07 pmRecent rumours abound that Russia tried to pay some upcoming (maturing? Basically, due for payment) sovereign debt in Rubles, and the lenders pointed to the contractual obligation to pay in nothing but US dollars, and told them to get those within 30 days. Dollars Russia has no access to. And likely won't for a good long while.

Although that sounds hilarious, Russia is well past giving a flying one about our western so-called “laws”, and “contracts”, and it could turn out to be not very funny at all depending on how much it is, who the lender is, what effect a Russian default would have, and how much more is still in the pipeline waiting to unwind.

I guess you could use the seized foreign reserves to pay the creditors - a bit like an insolvency - but that’s going to be a can of worms too.

That's pretty fucking savage

Interesting article about the turrets popping off the top of Russian tanks, comparison to American tanks, and the design philosophy behind each.


https://taskandpurpose.com/analysis/rus ... blown-off/

"And so, what you often-times see is a sequence where one propellant case or a couple of propellant cases go off and then the stowage down in the autoloader goes up, basically like a string of firecrackers.”

I'm not sure 'firecrackers' covers the size of those things.

At least it's a quick way to go.

Beany wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:36 am At least it's a quick way to go.

I was thinking the same. If the pressure is enough to pop the lid off the tank it's not going to leave much left of the crew.

Lego model of the Moskva: