Coronavirus

[drcarlos]

Masks / coverings dont work anyway.

The whole thing is beyond a joke.

Yeah, tell that to the medical professionals who have worn them every day for decades during routine procedures.

I’m sure they do it for the lols.

You are saying they are all the same - they are not. Don't be daft here, the public grade coverings arent the same .

Even for the medical grade masks there is a lot of debate over their effectiveness.

'Protection of the surgeon
An increasingly prevalent belief, in favour of mask usage, is the idea that they also confer some degree of protection to the operating staff from patient-derived infectious material.18 Most obviously, they can act as a physical barrier against blood and bodily fluid splashes during surgery. One prospective study revealed that facemasks prevented blood/bodily fluid splashes that would have otherwise contaminated the surgeon’s face in 24% of procedures.19 The incidence of blood/bodily fluid splashes varies substantially between settings and between individuals. The risk is modified by the role of surgical staff (lead surgeons are at higher risk than first assistants, who in turn have a higher risk than scrub nurses), by surgical specialty as well as by surgical technique.19,20 The frequency of blood/bodily fluid splashed has been reported to be as high as 62.5% in lead surgeons performing Caesarean section.20

Despite clear evidence that facemasks act to protect the theatre staff from macroscopic facial contamination, there are studies to suggest that they fail to protect surgeons from potentially hazardous sub-micrometre contaminants.21 This corresponds roughly to the size range of infectious bacteria while viruses are even smaller. Therefore, the protection that masks confer in the form of macroscopic facial contamination may not necessarily extend towards any microscopic infectious agents present within that contamination.

Proponents of the surgical facemask may argue that even if they fail to completely negate the risks of infection they are likely to reduce exposure in a dose-dependent manner. While this field has not been extensively investigated, preliminary work suggests that facemasks fail to confer any degree of protection from infection due to streptococcal and staphylococcal bacterial species22 or hepatitis B virus.23 Furthermore, a facemask splash may promote a false sense of security, as surgeons may be less likely to report these as an occupational exposure to bodily fluid compared to frank facial contamination.'

taken from here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... procedures.

TL:DR - Medical grade masks basically offer zero protection from viruses or microscopic bacteria which is what we are trying to achieve.

Is there any scientific paper that has any study in it that has a different conclusion for bacteria or viri?

[Broccers]

Yeah, tell that to the medical professionals who have worn them every day for decades during routine procedures.

I’m sure they do it for the lols.

You are saying they are all the same - they are not. Don't be daft here, the public grade coverings arent the same .

So you're saying a physical barrier in front of the mouth and nose (where the virus is shed via) does nothing at all to stop the virus being shed by the wearer...?

Why do we all cover our mouths with our hands when we cough then - surely we should either not bother or all be wearing medical grade face coverings all the time?

Dont work does not equal does nothing. HTH.

[Swervin_Mervin]

You are saying they are all the same - they are not. Don't be daft here, the public grade coverings arent the same .

So you're saying a physical barrier in front of the mouth and nose (where the virus is shed via) does nothing at all to stop the virus being shed by the wearer...?

Why do we all cover our mouths with our hands when we cough then - surely we should either not bother or all be wearing medical grade face coverings all the time?

Dont work does not equal does nothing. HTH.

Not really, no.

[Broccers]

So you're saying a physical barrier in front of the mouth and nose (where the virus is shed via) does nothing at all to stop the virus being shed by the wearer...?

Why do we all cover our mouths with our hands when we cough then - surely we should either not bother or all be wearing medical grade face coverings all the time?

Dont work does not equal does nothing. HTH.

Not really, no.

Yes really yes.

[Simon]

Masks work, proof.

From that article:



Click on the tweet and read the thread.

[Broccers]

A load of shit that tweet.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Dont work does not equal does nothing. HTH.

Not really, no.

Yes really yes.

You seem to be telling me that your response was helpful. I'm telling you it wasn't - cos I dont having a fcking clue what "Dont work does not equal does nothing" is actually supposed to mean. Do you have a Yorkshire>English translator to hand?

[Marv]

I cant tell if Broccers is trolling or being serious anymore

[Broccers]

I cant tell if Broccers is trolling or being serious anymore

Too easy

[Beany]

Wearing a simple mask is a best effort job that anyone can do, and will reduce the chance of spreading infection while asymptomatic from degrees varying from 'somewhat' to 'quite effectively', which is a major improvement on 'not at fucking all' like lots of fucking idiots seem happy with.

This genuinely isn't difficult to understand. You know, for most people.

[drcarlos]

Masks work, proof.

From that article:



Click on the tweet and read the thread.

Not exactly a sutdy performed under controlled conditions or peer reviewed is it though? It's amazing what some will accept as gospel truth when it presents a wafer thin case. If it was published in a medical journal it might carry more weight but currently it has as much credibility as the trump pissing file that Buzzfeed published.

[Simon]

Masks work, proof.

From that article:



Click on the tweet and read the thread.

Not exactly a sutdy performed under controlled conditions or peer reviewed is it though? It's amazing what some will accept as gospel truth when it presents a wafer thin case. If it was published in a medical journal it might carry more weight but currently it has as much credibility as the trump pissing file that Buzzfeed published.

What, like this one from The Lancet?

Again, masks work, and there is more proof.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Even if there is no proof either way, what's wrong with just erring on the side of caution? It's only a fvcking mask ffs!

[drcarlos]

Masks work, proof.

From that article:



Click on the tweet and read the thread.

Not exactly a sutdy performed under controlled conditions or peer reviewed is it though? It's amazing what some will accept as gospel truth when it presents a wafer thin case. If it was published in a medical journal it might carry more weight but currently it has as much credibility as the trump pissing file that Buzzfeed published.

What, like this one from The Lancet?

Again, masks work, and there is more proof.

Did you actually read the findings section?

'Face mask use could result in a large reduction in risk of infection (n=2647; aOR 0·15, 95% CI 0·07 to 0·34, RD −14·3%, −15·9 to −10·7; low certainty), with stronger associations with N95 or similar respirators compared with disposable surgical masks or similar (eg, reusable 12–16-layer cotton masks; pinteraction=0·090; posterior probability >95%, low certainty)'

There is no conclusion either way there 'could' is not 'does'. They used studies that were published that were uncontrolled by themselves and had no random contgrol groups, so they cannot say 'does'. The Lancet has to be careful as they already had to retract the study published on Hydroxicloriquine as it was bunk.

[drcarlos]

Even if there is no proof either way, what's wrong with just erring on the side of caution? It's only a fvcking mask ffs!

I do wear one, didn't say I didn't, but I do question what I'm told. The propoganda machine is in overdrive on this one with seemingly very little quesitoning.
Remember repiitition doesn't make it true, but more people will believe that it is if you keep saying the same thing.

The study I linked was published in 2015 with no agenda to satisfy so is likely to be fairly reliable. The Lancet might have an agenda as shown by the hyroxy retraction so they need ot be held up to scrutiny.

[ZedLeg]

Is there anyone without a vested interest that has said that masks don’t help?

It’s basically anti vax tier obtuseness as far as I’m concerned.

ETA just read DrCarlos’s post. The masks are supposed to stop transmission via droplets from coughing etc. So your study would suggest they do work, no?

[dinny_g]

Mask refusers are the new Flat Earthers.

The right thing to do is to feel sorry for them and then, just don’t engage with them. It’s futile...

[duncs500]

It’s basically anti vax tier obtuseness as far as I’m concerned.

You're doing this on purpose now!

[Broccers]

Noone said they didn't wear one where requested. They (none medical hi spec) don't actually work tho that was my point higher up.

Student wave next as previously mentioned a few pages back. Hopefully they don't see older relatives, can't say I did much at 18 to 25.

[drcarlos]

Is there anyone without a vested interest that has said that masks don’t help?

It’s basically anti vax tier obtuseness as far as I’m concerned.

ETA just read DrCarlos’s post. The masks are supposed to stop transmission via droplets from coughing etc. So your study would suggest they do work, no?

Medical grade masks let through all the viri and bacteria was also clearly stated, so what use is a normal face covering of medical grade lets the stuff through we are trying to protect against?

Anyway here's another study in the BMJ that show a high incidence of Covid when wearing masks which appears to corroborate the earlier study that says the 5-10 micron particles of body fluid can pass through a medical grade mask.

'Inhalational risk may be reduced by social distancing, limiting interaction indoors, avoiding air recirculation, improved natural and artificial ventilation, and innovative engineering solutions which collect and neutralise aerosols to provide clean air in personal and community spaces'

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3206

no once is a mask mentioned as a preventative measure that works.

What I also find interesting is that the change from airbourne to droplet is defined as 5-10 microns in size. So if you cough and produce thousands of droplets that will likely be hundreds that are smaller than 10 microns and classed as airbourne. The fibre density of a basic mask is nowhere near 10 microns so there is basically a shitload getting through.