OV9

NotoriousREV wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:38 am

RobYob wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:29 am

NotoriousREV wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:20 am

I don’t hate it as a car, other than it being ugly. I hate it as a Supra. It’s not supposed to be small and light, a Soarer is supposed to be a fast 2+2 coupe based GT.

FTFY as it appears you've forgotten what a Supra is.

Bollocks.

Rev is correct. They should be aiming the Supra at the 911 not the Boxster. They should also have made it not ugly and they should not have a 4 cyl with less power than the GT86 anywhere in the range.

It'd make more sense priced somewhere around £45k perhaps. But otherwise, I like it. Looks good to my eyes, at least it's not another SUV. And that's the reason why they're in bed with BMW, because they cannot bear the burden alone of developing sports cars these days which sell in decreasing numbers.

And since when was zero to 60 in a little over 4 seconds deemed as slow? It may not have much more power than its predecessor, but why does it need 400hp for example, along with bigger wheels and brakes to cope with it etc? I've spent the last three weeks driving around in a Panamera 4 Sport Turismo, 335hp or somewhere around there and it's plenty fast enough to go illegal very quickly. The Supra's output seems matched to today's roads.

Has anyone seen a (real) picture of the front of it with a number plate on yet? Seems to me that it could be a bit "new Vantage" with regard to awkward plate placement.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:42 pm

NotoriousREV wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:38 am

RobYob wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:29 am

FTFY as it appears you've forgotten what a Supra is.

Bollocks.

Rev is correct. They should be aiming the Supra at the 911 not the Boxster. They should also have made it not ugly and they should not have a 4 cyl with less power than the GT86 anywhere in the range.

Problem is, I guess, that they don't want to undermine the Lexus LC500.

Simon wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:39 pm

Mito Man wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:32 pm This is interesting, until now I thought the 335 bhp output was WTLP only as the Americans were rumoured to have 385 bhp but as it is the US press release also has 335 bhp which would be odd if they’re running the expensive power restraining particulate filters unnecessarily. But at least it’s a much more reasonable $49,990 over there.

Does the 'W' in WLTP not mean 'World'?

Yes if we take the ‘world’ to consist only of EU member states and about 10 other countries. WTLP isn’t used in the majority of the world.

GG. wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:45 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:42 pm

NotoriousREV wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:38 am

Bollocks.

Rev is correct. They should be aiming the Supra at the 911 not the Boxster. They should also have made it not ugly and they should not have a 4 cyl with less power than the GT86 anywhere in the range.

Problem is, I guess, that they don't want to undermine the Lexus LC500.

Yeah I figure it's not wanting to step on Lexus territory but I think there's space for something a in the same area but a bit rawer from the Supra. No one who really wants a sports car would look at a Lexus (LF-A excepted) but some would probably look at a Supra.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:00 pm

GG. wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:45 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:42 pm

Rev is correct. They should be aiming the Supra at the 911 not the Boxster. They should also have made it not ugly and they should not have a 4 cyl with less power than the GT86 anywhere in the range.

Problem is, I guess, that they don't want to undermine the Lexus LC500.

Yeah I figure it's not wanting to step on Lexus territory but I think there's space for something a in the same area but a bit rawer from the Supra. No one who really wants a sports car would look at a Lexus (LF-A excepted) but some would probably look at a Supra.

Up until the Lexus SC430 (which was the Toyota Soarer in certain markets), the Soarer and Supra shared the same platform all the way through. The Supra was the sporty one, the Soarer the luxury one. Personally I see the LC500 as closer to the Supra ethos than the Z4. Some carbon fibre, lightweight seats etc.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:42 pm They should not have a 4 cyl with less power than the GT86 anywhere in the range.

Why? There's no logic to not offering a platform with as many powertrain options as you think the market can bear.

I've got nothing against a circa 200bhp rwd sports car but Toyota already has one, the Supra should be a bigger, faster car. TBF that engine is only available in Japan. Maybe they expect people to buy it and swap a 2JZ straight in for drifting, like that poverty spec GT86 they sold over there.

NotoriousREV wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:09 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:00 pm

GG. wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:45 pm

Problem is, I guess, that they don't want to undermine the Lexus LC500.

Yeah I figure it's not wanting to step on Lexus territory but I think there's space for something a in the same area but a bit rawer from the Supra. No one who really wants a sports car would look at a Lexus (LF-A excepted) but some would probably look at a Supra.

Up until the Lexus SC430 (which was the Toyota Soarer in certain markets), the Soarer and Supra shared the same platform all the way through. The Supra was the sporty one, the Soarer the luxury one. Personally I see the LC500 as closer to the Supra ethos than the Z4. Some carbon fibre, lightweight seats etc.

Ah, I never knew the Supra and Soarer were on the same platform. I'd always assumed the soarer was a 2 door Chaser.

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:50 pm
a 2 door Chaser.

I've heard of the Soarer but I'm sure you're now just making these up.

GG. wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:18 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:50 pm
a 2 door Chaser.

I've heard of the Soarer but I'm sure you're now just making these up.

The Soarer was a competitor of the Nissan Leopard, whereas the Chaser/Cresta/Cressida/Mark II was up against the Gloria and Cedric.

NotoriousREV wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:24 pm

GG. wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:18 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:50 pm
a 2 door Chaser.

I've heard of the Soarer but I'm sure you're now just making these up.

The Soarer was a competitor of the Nissan Leopard, whereas the Chaser/Cresta/Cressida/Mark II was up against the Gloria and Cedric.

I've heard of the Cressida, Gloria and Cedric. The only Cresta I've ever heard of is a Vauxhall. Clearly I need to bone up on obscure vintage Japanese models.

In fact, having just googled the Leopard, maybe not

That's the wanky Leopard J. Ferie, not the earlier Leopard which was much cooler:

NotoriousREV wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:24 pm

GG. wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:18 pm

ZedLeg wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:50 pm
a 2 door Chaser.

I've heard of the Soarer but I'm sure you're now just making these up.

The Soarer was a competitor of the Nissan Leopard, whereas the Chaser/Cresta/Cressida/Mark II was up against the Gloria and Cedric.

Don't forget the Crystal, Sanki, Ethel and the Shakira?

What? Are we not just making up car names?

Seems slow and expensive

I believe the A80 was faster than the then current V8 Ferrari, (the 348)

Hardly the case now

Richard wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:14 pm Seems slow and expensive

I believe the A80 was faster than the then current V8 Ferrari, (the 348)

Hardly the case now

So it's too expensive but you want it to compete with the 488?

Scale up the price difference from the 90s 348 vs A90 (sauce) and the new Supra would be £105k.
Or scale it less ambitiously against the 911 and it'd be £85k.

So actually it's fast, cheap and (Toyota=reliable) must be the devil's work.

RobYob wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:21 pm

Richard wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:14 pm Seems slow and expensive

I believe the A80 was faster than the then current V8 Ferrari, (the 348)

Hardly the case now

So it's too expensive but you want it to compete with the 488?

Scale up the price difference from the 90s 348 vs A90 (sauce) and the new Supra would be £105k.
Or scale it less ambitiously against the 911 and it'd be £85k.

So actually it's fast, cheap and (Toyota=reliable) must be the devil's work.

You're being obtuse. He's saying its expensive for the performance on offer and given it wears a Toyota badge. If you adjusted the original price for inflation, one online calculator I'm looking at does you'd come out at around 70k but that if you're comparing apples with apples, that was for something with a significant power advantage to a basic 911 Carrera (even taking the outgoing 991.2 (and really the Carrera S is the de facto standard 911 these days)) has 365hp then you'd be looking at 450hp+. So 120hp more powerful than it actually is, for 15k more...

Meh, it’s just an uglier Z4.