OV9

How do you think the EU would react if we, somehow, managed to undo this ? (declare null and void, Second referendum that votes remain etc.) ?

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:54 pm

Jobbo wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:45 pm Are you suggesting that a hard Brexit (i.e. no deal, leave next March) is in some way economically detrimental?

I was suggesting that the likelihood is that Brexit (hard, soft or a semi) would result in a reduction of GDP in the short to medium term. As with everything, its extremely difficult to forecast because the consequences of "hard Brexit", i.e. exit on WTO terms are not pre-ordained. They are a function of (i) what contingency planning there is to avoid hurdles being placed in the way of trade and (ii) whether the EU elects to levy WTO tariffs on UK goods, (iii) whether we reciprocate and (iv) the financial effects of not having to apply the CET, among many other things.

You're avoiding the question there - telling me how difficult it is to predict is not a prediction.

JLv3.0 wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:54 pm Yes, that's what I meant. I know I sound argumentative but for once that isn't my intention. Beyond vague concepts of sovereignty and a nod to the racists, what has this been sold on? Will people get more money and will the trains be quicker, or something?

There are lots of things that EU regulations restrict - it depends what important to you. Fisheries policy as Broccers noted. Not having to apply the common external tarrif and therefore penalising third world farmers in favour of first world ones. The feminist lobby would dearly love for VAT on tampons to be scrapped. Dyson could make more powerful hoovers. The effect of GDPR regulations for entities may have been able to be reduced. Ability to apply restrictions on the flooding of the job market with European low skilled labour increasing wages for the lower paid avoiding the need for you to tax and redistribute as much.

All of these things and 1,000,001 others can be done. If you align wholly with the EU and aren't part of it, however, as TM is suggesting. Then very few will ever materialise.

Broccers wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:32 pm Have you ever looked at fishing quotas? Just as a starter....

These would be the fishing quotas that a) were responsible for ensuring continuing fishing stocks and b) that lots of UK fishermen got rich off by selling to their European counterparts? Are those the fishing quotas you're talking about?

Sorry I'm in what could pass for Albania at the moment so don't really care so much

NotoriousREV wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:02 pm

Broccers wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:32 pm Have you ever looked at fishing quotas? Just as a starter....

These would be the fishing quotas that a) were responsible for ensuring continuing fishing stocks and b) that lots of UK fishermen got rich off by selling to their European counterparts? Are those the fishing quotas you're talking about?

Did they agree to the chucking overboard of healthy fish too? I'm unsure but like I said dont care so much today

dinny_g wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:58 pm How do you think the EU would react if we, somehow, managed to undo this ? (declare null and void, Second referendum that votes remain etc.) ?

They'd tell you to fuck off because there's not a chance in hell the 26 remaining EU members will vote to allow the UK to rescind our Article 50 notice which they won't agree has not been validly submitted because PARLIAMENT voted for it to be exercised. As people dearly love to note, the referendum was advisory, the vote didn't mean art 50 was exercised and therefore whatever shenanigans the leave campaign did are totally irrelevant if you subscribe to the view that the referendum was not binding. You cannot have EVERYTHING both ways to suit your argument.

@GG - but it was sold on Engerland Roooles Itself Innit, bye bye immigrants and the £350m / week lie, correct?

The plebs wouldn't even be able to pronounce the words in your post let alone understand what they mean yet they still voted for it, so it has to have been easily digestable.

Same goes for every government ever elected. Takes you down a slippery slope that argument.

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:02 pm

JLv3.0 wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:54 pm Yes, that's what I meant. I know I sound argumentative but for once that isn't my intention. Beyond vague concepts of sovereignty and a nod to the racists, what has this been sold on? Will people get more money and will the trains be quicker, or something?

There are lots of things that EU regulations restrict - it depends what important to you. Fisheries policy as Broccers noted. Not having to apply the common external tarrif and therefore penalising third world farmers in favour of first world ones. The feminist lobby would dearly love for VAT on tampons to be scrapped. Dyson could make more powerful hoovers. The effect of GDPR regulations for entities may have been able to be reduced. Ability to apply restrictions on the flooding of the job market with European low skilled labour increasing wages for the lower paid avoiding the need for you to tax and redistribute as much.

All of these things and 1,000,001 others can be done. If you align wholly with the EU and aren't part of it, however, as TM is suggesting. Then very few will ever materialise.

Let's examine these:

Fishing policy: quotas mean we haven't fished stocks into oblivion (the twats) and some version of it would've been implemented whether we were in the EU or not.
Can't comment on the common external tariff as I don't know enough about it
VAT is entirely UK government controlled
Limiting power of vacuum cleaners: trying to improve the environment (the bastards) and some version of it would've been implemented whether we were in the EU or not as it's a result of global agreements we've signed up to.
GDPR is the EU version of the same laws everyone is putting into practice, including the US and is very good for individuals, even if it is a pain in the arse for business
We already have the ability to reduce this so-called (and not backed up by any statistics) flooding of the job market and control our borders more, but the UK Government has chosen not to apply those restrictions (immigration is a net benefit with a higher proportion of immigrants in work or owning businesses than non-immigrants)

Next...

Well that combined with Broccers not caring has me totally convinced now, thanks guys.

@GG again, not Angry Dave

@ Rev. Well done - you've totally lost it. Most of the above is totally made up but nice to know you've become fully indoctrinated.

I mean, seriously "ermahgerd, we can't have powerful hoovers so let's throw away our economic prosperity". Is that the fucking best argument you can come up with? FFS.

Bloody hell, Rees-Mogadishu is going to be PM, and anyone who doesn't feature in Peerage will end up in the workhouse.

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:10 pm Well done - you've totally lost it. Most of the above is totally made up but nice to know you've become fully indoctrinated.

Feel free to provide evidence. It's all 100% correct and back up with actual data. You should try it some time.

If you have actual facts from a reliable and verifiable source, please provide it.

Just think of the fishing quotas chaps

JLv3.0 wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:10 pm Well that combined with Broccers not caring has me totally convinced now, thanks guys.

@GG again, not Angry Dave

Hey I dont give a fvck if youre convinced just in case you didnt realise

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:10 pm @ Rev. Well done - you've totally lost it. Most of the above is totally made up but nice to know you've become fully indoctrinated.

Ad hominem, already? Answer his points.

Broccers wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:13 pm

JLv3.0 wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:10 pm Well that combined with Broccers not caring has me totally convinced now, thanks guys.

@GG again, not Angry Dave

Hey I dont give a fvck if youre convinced just in case you didnt realise

I wouldn't expect you or anyone else to! I just don't get how the Leave brigade are unable to give any real world justification for the flag they've chosen to fly, that's all.

JLv3.0 wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:13 pm

GG. wrote: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:10 pm @ Rev. Well done - you've totally lost it. Most of the above is totally made up but nice to know you've become fully indoctrinated.

Ad hominem, already? Answer his points.

Same as usual with any Brexiteer: no answers, just attacks and rhetoric.