Porsche's finances

[Ascender]

I see Shmeeeee has done a long piece on the market and how the bubble is bursting all over the place for every brand. Which I guess is just common sense, but does make you wonder about where this is going to end up for companies like Ferrari in particular.

He also makes the point that apparently nobody could really see depreciation of sports cars before Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok etc. Umm...

Its kind of like the Premier League thinking they invented football and nothing before them counts for anything.

[mik]

I see Shmeeeee has done a long piece on the market and how the bubble is bursting all over the place for every brand.

That popped up on my feed. But I couldn't face watching him..... so your summary will have to do.

[Jobbo]

He also makes the point that apparently nobody could really see depreciation of sports cars before Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok etc. Umm...

I remember my dad having a budget up to about £20k for a company car in 1988. He decided between a Jag XJ and a Saab 9000 in the end (and went for the Saab) but I lobbied him to get a Lambo Miura because they were the same price. I think that was before the big crash in used values as well.

[Mito Man]

Remember the old stories of people buying old Bugattis for scrap value and racing them round grass tracks. I’ve held off buying anything and am ready to pick up the hyper car trinity for £5000. Cash.

[integrale_evo]

Not in supercar territory, but I’ve noticed more examples of certain more rare / specialist cars for sale in the last month or so than I have for years. Does finally feel like a bit of a realignment is coming.

[GG.]

I see Shmeeeee has done a long piece on the market and how the bubble is bursting all over the place for every brand. Which I guess is just common sense, but does make you wonder about where this is going to end up for companies like Ferrari in particular.

He also makes the point that apparently nobody could really see depreciation of sports cars before Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok etc. Umm...

Its kind of like the Premier League thinking they invented football and nothing before them counts for anything.

I've only watched part of it so far but a factor he noted was the very wealthy leaving the UK which obviously has a hugely outsized effect at that level of the market.

Before Rich pops up to say its all a myth, Ferrari have come out publicly and stated that's the case and they've restricted supply as a result to prop up prices... https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ax-changes

Annoyingly it really only seems to really affect stuff >200k up. 100k-200k market for already depreciated cars is not affected. I regularly monitor 458, F12 and 812 prices and they haven't moved at all.

[Jobbo]

a factor he noted was the very wealthy leaving the UK which obviously has a hugely outsized effect at that level of the market.

What would really tip the balance is Youtubers leaving the UK.

[GG.]

a factor he noted was the very wealthy leaving the UK which obviously has a hugely outsized effect at that level of the market.

What would really tip the balance is Youtubers leaving the UK.

Yes looking at Shmee's garage that must be right!

[Rich B]

I see Shmeeeee has done a long piece on the market and how the bubble is bursting all over the place for every brand. Which I guess is just common sense, but does make you wonder about where this is going to end up for companies like Ferrari in particular.

He also makes the point that apparently nobody could really see depreciation of sports cars before Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok etc. Umm...

Its kind of like the Premier League thinking they invented football and nothing before them counts for anything.

I've only watched part of it so far but a factor he noted was the very wealthy leaving the UK which obviously has a hugely outsized effect at that level of the market.

Before Rich pops up to say its all a myth, Ferrari have come out publicly and stated that's the case and they've restricted supply as a result to prop up prices... https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ax-changes

Annoyingly it really only seems to really affect stuff >200k up. 100k-200k market for already depreciated cars is not affected. I regularly monitor 458, F12 and 812 prices and they haven't moved at all.

Ferrari rode the crest and sold a load of cars on excitement, but now people are remembering that front engine and 4wd Ferraris depreciate like stones.

[Jobbo]

I've seen people saying the 550 Maranello will be the next big appreciating Ferrari but I don't see it myself - it's front-engined and that's usually the kiss of death. The 599 GTO and F12 TdF seem to be valuable but they are limited run specials so you'd need to compare a normal 599 or F12's depreciation.

[Marv]

I missed this, but interesting that Bugatti are no longer part of VAG.

Basically Porsche are doing so shit, they've sold off their share in Bugatti & Rimac to a "New York-based investment firm"

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/busine ... vw-bugatti

[Jobbo]

Seems quite sensible - was there much Porsche in a Bugatti? Probably only to the extent that both shared common VAG parts.

Porsche did have a much reduced profit last year... but they still made a profit. How does or will Bugatti make a profit? Being able to share elements with VAG group must have massively helped with their development costs.

[Mito Man]

Remember when VAG lost £6 million per Veyron and then Bugatti were forced to make the Chiron profitable or have the plug pulled. Can’t really see if it was in the end.
I find Mate Rimac’s financials/background a bit odd. Young lad converts an e30 to EV, then starts a supercar company which has never made a profit, somehow has a continuous stream of investors propping him up, then acquires a chunk of Bugatti.
Maybe he has the skills to sell a sausage roll to Greggs but it’s all a bit suspicious.

[DeskJockey]

I assume that a large part of the Rimac proposition is the tech they've developed, and investors are buying access/betting that enough others will that the value goes up and/or they turn a profit.