OV9

mik wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 10:20 am @Nefarious No real idea - that's more like pub/nightclub weaponry you are after.

Something like this?

They have one UK distributor who doesn't list it but could presumably get one?

edit: baws - I missed that the RMS power quoted is 500w

It's exactly stuff like that I've half-heartedly looked at before, but haven't taken the plunge because the whole world of commercial/venue audio is alien to me and I don't want the sacrifice quality in the search for outright power. And I *always* regard quoting peak power as a massive red flag.

scotta wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 10:50 am Ive used the Matrix amps that Chris used to have. He had a 2 channel Matrix UKP2100 SMPS for powering the 18" subs. We could run these at full chat hours and they barely sniffed. 1050W per channel. Ran 2 x18" drivers on two channels to much loudness. Zero distortion and take a lot of power to clip the channels. Those would do you perfectly.

A further thought about your current amp - What are you driving it from at the line level? Some amps dont give full power unless you are driving them with a 5V input.

Good tip on the Matrix, Scott. Look to be a very reasonable price for that level of power. Looks like I'd need a separate crossover, but looks to be adequately pokey for the application.

On the input level thing - I use one of the line-outs from the Yamaha. Not the Sub one, because that's pre-cut, but one of the power amp outputs. Never measured the voltage, but I have tried replacing the Reckhorn with the Arcam, and bridged up, the Arcam is quite close to the outright power level of the Reckhorn (when the Reckhorn should be more than double the raw output).

NGRhodes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 10:59 am

GG. wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 10:42 am I'm tempted by an amp with one of the DIRAC adjustment systems built in. Only downside though is I've always found that these systems generally negatively affect the sound overall. Same with the SAM bass extension adjustment thing on the Devialet.

A good equalisation system will have a net positive. I've not looked into DIRAC in detail, but it gets lots of positive feedback. I believe it works fully in the digital domain, which in theory should not lose any audio information like can happen with analog processing.
Don't forget speakers, the room colours the sound output and being able to correct and minimise these artifacts (when done accurately) will far outweigh any artifacts added by decent equalisation tools themselves (which will probably be low to non).
Getting some kind of feedback from the systems (such as seeing the level of corrections added) is very useful for improving things like speaker positioning, optimal seating position, making compromises for multiple seating positions or being able to tweak settings on a active sub.

DIRAC is the only calibration (aside from the big money bespoke systems like Trinnov) that I've found to actually improve the sound over a good ear in a typical living room.
I sure the others work well in a lab, and in dedicated home cinema spaces, but they don't seem to deal with non-uniform rooms.

This week I've been setting up a home cinema with one of my engineers - a dedicated space with dense materials on the walls and floor. The speakers are nothing special - mid-range Origin Acoustics in-wall and two B&W subs, and the amp is just a £900 Marantz. It sound great, and the Marantz mic calibration did improve it, but the room is easy for it to understand. I'd never use the suggested calibration settings from a Marantz in a living room.

Jimexpl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:41 am If you don't mind fan noise, any of the big name commercial amps should work for you - Electro-Voice and Crown XTi tend to be my default brands when doing commercial installs. If you don't mid spending a bit more (or need something silent) the Audio Control RS1000 is great.

Jim - as mentioned above, I'm a bit unfamiliar with the world of commercial stuff. Would you say that brands like Electro-Voice and Crown XTi are at least on a par quality-wise with the sort of domestic stuff discussed here - Arcams, NADs etc?

Forgot to add a pic -

Nefarious wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 11:56 am

scotta wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 10:50 am Ive used the Matrix amps that Chris used to have. He had a 2 channel Matrix UKP2100 SMPS for powering the 18" subs. We could run these at full chat hours and they barely sniffed. 1050W per channel. Ran 2 x18" drivers on two channels to much loudness. Zero distortion and take a lot of power to clip the channels. Those would do you perfectly.

A further thought about your current amp - What are you driving it from at the line level? Some amps dont give full power unless you are driving them with a 5V input.

Good tip on the Matrix, Scott. Look to be a very reasonable price for that level of power. Looks like I'd need a separate crossover, but looks to be adequately pokey for the application.

On the input level thing - I use one of the line-outs from the Yamaha. Not the Sub one, because that's pre-cut, but one of the power amp outputs. Never measured the voltage, but I have tried replacing the Reckhorn with the Arcam, and bridged up, the Arcam is quite close to the outright power level of the Reckhorn (when the Reckhorn should be more than double the raw output).

Just use the sub line out from your yamaha. It will already have a hi pass cut applied. You could of course also add a DSP unit before any of the amps and that would give you cut control to all the channels. save sending full range to the smaller speakers in the ceiling.

Have you tried using the sub output from the yamaha into the Reckhorn as a test?

GG. wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:32 am

If your Toy Towers are malfunctioning and you want to change but keep to SF then I'd highly recommend finding a pair of Grand Piano Home (not Domus, which was later). When my grandad passed away last year I've re-inherited them and they still work perfectly.

To be honest the Auditors don't work well in my room as it is nearly square and with a rear firing port it took to moving to an amp with as much control as the Devialet to tame the bass and it still isn't as incisive as i'd like. I'm tempted with another pair of B&Ws like Mik, though there is a bit of a snob factor in moving back to a more "mainstream" brand, even if it is the 800 series. Plus it will involve spending thousands and although I do end up splurging on HiFi it is only very infrequently.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll keep a note. I'm due a hifi splurge soon

Gavster wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 2:02 pm

GG. wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:32 am

If your Toy Towers are malfunctioning and you want to change but keep to SF then I'd highly recommend finding a pair of Grand Piano Home (not Domus, which was later). When my grandad passed away last year I've re-inherited them and they still work perfectly.

To be honest the Auditors don't work well in my room as it is nearly square and with a rear firing port it took to moving to an amp with as much control as the Devialet to tame the bass and it still isn't as incisive as i'd like. I'm tempted with another pair of B&Ws like Mik, though there is a bit of a snob factor in moving back to a more "mainstream" brand, even if it is the 800 series. Plus it will involve spending thousands and although I do end up splurging on HiFi it is only very infrequently.

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll keep a note. I'm due a hifi splurge soon

Pair on ebay here

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276041398394 ... p_homepage

I think £1,500 is a bit much but it is open to offers.

Well. There has been some progress, thanks to Scott's line-out voltage suggestion.

The story is a little more complicated than I laid out above, but in short - I never used the sub-out terminal from the Yamaha because it appeared to be dead and I assumed it was broken. Therefore the sub was driven from the line-out on the Arcam power amp, which we now assume to be 1V. According to the Reckhorn instructions (single page, in German), it can take 2V.

So there was a bit of playing about with hidden settings on the Yamaha (necessitating a visit to the loft to find the long lost remote), and I discovered the sub-out has just been switched off in the custom levels settings.

So, I have rejigged the rats' nest of wiring, and changed the order of a few things, including driving the Reckhorn from the sub out. This has resulted in a *slight* improvement in the power of the sub. *BUT* it is only a single channel output (at 4V) and the Reckhorn takes a double channel input, and I don't have a splitter cable to hand (despite apparently having every other conceivable wire configuration). One has been ordered.

But I am strongly confident that when it arrives, we will be playing with full power for the first time. I hope the neighbours have *strong* putty in their windows.