OV9

Posted: **Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:51 pm**

Yeah they rust extremely quickly, when I was at my mechanic last year he had a delivery mileage Defender in for rust proofing, it was stored for 5 years in a dry barn but was absolutely covered in surface rust underneath.
You can scroll through here to find some examples but you can make some right turds look mint with some degreaser and rustproofing
https://www.instagram.com/cskautomotive/

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:38 pm**

I just can’t see the point of the Grenadier. If LR couldn’t make it work, why could this new company, design a Defender, tool a factory and make profit?

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:19 pm**

Feels like another Delorean to me.

Free factory for other business once they give up on the Defender clone

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:46 pm**

Nathan wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:19 pm Feels like another Delorean to me.

Free factory for other business once they give up on the Defender clone

Its a funny one, Ratcliffe is an utterly ruthless businessman, yet this seems a like a plaything, one things for sure he ain't in it for the money

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:52 pm**

Kind of a shame they don’t just do their own design rather than a direct rip off of the defender.

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:14 pm**

Richard wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:38 pm I just can’t see the point of the Grenadier. If LR couldn’t make it work, why could this new company, design a Defender, tool a factory and make profit?

As a fanboy, the very few issues on a Defender have been known about for 35 years and LR didn’t do a single thing to fix them. Technically, they just added plastic tat and a 6th gear.

Defenders since the TD5 have been real rust monsters, they just rust quicker. Ow that’s ok on a normal vehicle but a Defender is basically a giant water/ mud trap and regular washing out is needed to keep on top of it.

I hope the Grenadier does well but I’ll wait for an unbiased review first.

Dave!

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:10 pm**

Rich B wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:52 pm Kind of a shame they don’t just do their own design rather than a direct rip off of the defender.

Yes I agree, I think that’s what they’re pinning their hopes to and wishing all the internet ‘you’ve killed our defender brigade’ will immediately identify with it and go and finance one. Unfortunately the hardcore defender owners only ever bought one, maybe two, second hand with bits from third parties.

I just don’t get how the Grenadier will work when the original Defender sold 18,000/year at its run out peak, with cars starting from circa £20k and the Grenadier is minimum of £30k with a higher peak volume at 24,000 and whacking great £600+Bn R&D bill to pay back. The press are now reporting the Grenadier is likely to push a £35k-£40k starting price and that’s the same price as the new Defender

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:14 pm**

V8Granite wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:14 pm
Richard wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:38 pm I just can’t see the point of the Grenadier. If LR couldn’t make it work, why could this new company, design a Defender, tool a factory and make profit?
As a fanboy, the very few issues on a Defender have been known about for 35 years and LR didn’t do a single thing to fix them. Technically, they just added plastic tat and a 6th gear.

Defenders since the TD5 have been real rust monsters, they just rust quicker. Ow that’s ok on a normal vehicle but a Defender is basically a giant water/ mud trap and regular washing out is needed to keep on top of it.

I hope the Grenadier does well but I’ll wait for an unbiased review first.

Dave!

If the Grenadier fixes those issues then that’s fine but not for a circa £15k premium when you compare the base price of the old Defender to the new pretender.

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:03 pm**

Orange Cola wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:14 pm
V8Granite wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:14 pm
Richard wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:38 pm I just can’t see the point of the Grenadier. If LR couldn’t make it work, why could this new company, design a Defender, tool a factory and make profit?
As a fanboy, the very few issues on a Defender have been known about for 35 years and LR didn’t do a single thing to fix them. Technically, they just added plastic tat and a 6th gear.

Defenders since the TD5 have been real rust monsters, they just rust quicker. Ow that’s ok on a normal vehicle but a Defender is basically a giant water/ mud trap and regular washing out is needed to keep on top of it.

I hope the Grenadier does well but I’ll wait for an unbiased review first.

Dave!
If the Grenadier fixes those issues then that’s fine but not for a circa £15k premium when you compare the base price of the old Defender to the new pretender.

It’s worth it, weak front axle, rust problems, gearbox problems (on the 6 speed) clutch, STILL couldn’t stop water leaking in etc. No excuse.

Now I’m not saying they have it fixed and people will rightfully be picky but from the videos I’ve seen, all biased though, the chassis and axle work look a whole league ahead.

Even something as simple as wheel bearings not needing to be re-tightened after a few thousand miles will be a benefit.

It will be how they do the utility side that will see them sink or swim I think. A proper flatbed, a proper can and a simple to modify chassis example will have people buying them. What won’t help is a bad dealer network, so they need to get this right, Land Rover really screwed that part up from experiences people have told me.

I’m excited to see one in the flesh, the suspension especially looks articulately lovely.

Dave!

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:05 pm**

V8Granite wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:03 pm
Orange Cola wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:14 pm
V8Granite wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:14 pm

As a fanboy, the very few issues on a Defender have been known about for 35 years and LR didn’t do a single thing to fix them. Technically, they just added plastic tat and a 6th gear.

Defenders since the TD5 have been real rust monsters, they just rust quicker. Ow that’s ok on a normal vehicle but a Defender is basically a giant water/ mud trap and regular washing out is needed to keep on top of it.

I hope the Grenadier does well but I’ll wait for an unbiased review first.

Dave!
If the Grenadier fixes those issues then that’s fine but not for a circa £15k premium when you compare the base price of the old Defender to the new pretender.
It’s worth it, weak front axle, rust problems, gearbox problems (on the 6 speed) clutch, STILL couldn’t stop water leaking in etc. No excuse.

Now I’m not saying they have it fixed and people will rightfully be picky but from the videos I’ve seen, all biased though, the chassis and axle work look a whole league ahead.

Even something as simple as wheel bearings not needing to be re-tightened after a few thousand miles will be a benefit.

It will be how they do the utility side that will see them sink or swim I think. A proper flatbed, a proper can and a simple to modify chassis example will have people buying them. What won’t help is a bad dealer network, so they need to get this right, Land Rover really screwed that part up from experiences people have told me.

I’m excited to see one in the flesh, the suspension especially looks articulately lovely.

Dave!

That doesn’t take money on the car to fix, it just shouldn’t have had those issues in the first place.

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:14 pm**

Orange Cola wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:05 pm
V8Granite wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:03 pm
Orange Cola wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:14 pm

If the Grenadier fixes those issues then that’s fine but not for a circa £15k premium when you compare the base price of the old Defender to the new pretender.
It’s worth it, weak front axle, rust problems, gearbox problems (on the 6 speed) clutch, STILL couldn’t stop water leaking in etc. No excuse.

Now I’m not saying they have it fixed and people will rightfully be picky but from the videos I’ve seen, all biased though, the chassis and axle work look a whole league ahead.

Even something as simple as wheel bearings not needing to be re-tightened after a few thousand miles will be a benefit.

It will be how they do the utility side that will see them sink or swim I think. A proper flatbed, a proper can and a simple to modify chassis example will have people buying them. What won’t help is a bad dealer network, so they need to get this right, Land Rover really screwed that part up from experiences people have told me.

I’m excited to see one in the flesh, the suspension especially looks articulately lovely.

Dave!
That doesn’t take money on the car to fix, it just shouldn’t have had those issues in the first place.

Completely agree, I think they relied on fanboys like me too much.

Dave!

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:02 pm**

V8Granite wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:14 pm
Orange Cola wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:05 pm
V8Granite wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:03 pm

It’s worth it, weak front axle, rust problems, gearbox problems (on the 6 speed) clutch, STILL couldn’t stop water leaking in etc. No excuse.

Now I’m not saying they have it fixed and people will rightfully be picky but from the videos I’ve seen, all biased though, the chassis and axle work look a whole league ahead.

Even something as simple as wheel bearings not needing to be re-tightened after a few thousand miles will be a benefit.

It will be how they do the utility side that will see them sink or swim I think. A proper flatbed, a proper can and a simple to modify chassis example will have people buying them. What won’t help is a bad dealer network, so they need to get this right, Land Rover really screwed that part up from experiences people have told me.

I’m excited to see one in the flesh, the suspension especially looks articulately lovely.

Dave!
That doesn’t take money on the car to fix, it just shouldn’t have had those issues in the first place.
Completely agree, I think they relied on fanboys like me too much.

Dave!

All that was fine when it was first launched and had a small amount of competition. But even the Japanese equivalents didn’t suffer such basic issues from the late 80’s and 90’s, they had their own issues, but the Japanese kept developing and the defender got some different engines, ABS and DSC, a gearbox update and some different style wheels and paint colours. The new one feels like the Defender had been continually developed on a parallel universe and ported across to this one, it’s weirdly familiar.

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:14 pm**

I find the new Defender a wonderful thing, it’s simply not a replacement though, the whole package is just far too different. Not the technical side but the utilitarian side, it’s just a very capable SUV. I’d still love one but not as a Defender replacement as it just isn’t capable to do the same job.

I darent go on any Land Rover forums to keep away from the floods of bile.

The new Defender will be a great success, I hope the grenadier will be the same.

Dave!

Posted: **Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:16 pm**

Rich B wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:52 pm Kind of a shame they don’t just do their own design rather than a direct rip off of the defender.

I get that, but on the flip side, lots of people just love the looks of the original Defender and keep buying them despite their flaws. I don’t think it’s the worst idea in the world to make something which looks like the old one, but with modern underpinnings, reliability, interior etc. For the right price, I think it could sell well, assuming its not a total lemon.

I just think it might be too expensive and they’ve maybe missed their chance to steal a march on the new Defender.

Posted: **Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:11 am**

Ascender wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:16 pm
Rich B wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:52 pm Kind of a shame they don’t just do their own design rather than a direct rip off of the defender.
I get that, but on the flip side, lots of people just love the looks of the original Defender and keep buying them despite their flaws. I don’t think it’s the worst idea in the world to make something which looks like the old one, but with modern underpinnings, reliability, interior etc. For the right price, I think it could sell well, assuming its not a total lemon.

I just think it might be too expensive and they’ve maybe missed their chance to steal a march on the new Defender.

will they just end up as Panda Cola, it kind of looks the same, but isn’t cool because it’s not the real thing.

Posted: **Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:00 am**

It looks more like a Santana than a Defender, and they didn’t sell well despite being basically a facelifted Defender.

Posted: **Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:44 am**

Jobbo wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:00 am It looks more like a Santana than a Defender, and they didn’t sell well despite being basically a facelifted Defender.

They were a S3 copy and just a bit crap.

Dave!

Posted: **Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:00 pm**

Suggestion that it won’t be built in the UK now.

Posted: **Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:34 am**

Well that news should have all the internet fanboys pulling out their money in disgust

Posted: **Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:54 am**

Jobbo wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:00 am It looks more like a Santana than a Defender, and they didn’t sell well despite being basically a facelifted Defender.

Thank you, I spent half the thread trying remember who had done a copy a few years back. With the impending doom of "No Deal" you would be a brave person to start up a factory in the UK I fear. The article I saw seemed to think the WA had sunk a lot of money in and were rather reticent on admitting how much.

I think it looks like a Defender but cannot see how it will be a viable seller.

OV9

Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)