OV9

Orange Cola wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 10:14 am

Rich B wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 10:10 am

Orange Cola wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 10:08 am

I’ll consult the crystal ball and let you know, it’s what I do before every car purchase but I prefer the old fashioned way as described above

Assuming that all cars with anything but a fixed roof are crap based on the experience of a car put together by fat Americans!

I don’t get your point, I’ve said more than once it’s not a manufacturing issue but you seem to not be able to acknowledge that.

no one really gets your point mate!

You seem to be saying you wouldn’t buy a convertible that has had its roof replaced because the experience you’ve had with yours. But for some reason you think Targas have a design fault that means they would need to be replaced.

out of interest, Who is the supplier who makes Porsche And ford targa roofs?

Well, I for one now know not to buy a 991 targa from one of those places which used to put leaky pop-out sunroofs in cars in the 80s and make sure it's only a factory one

This thread is getting as confusing as the Musk one

Is OC really just covertly cat-whistling to extreme centrist porcupines and oblongutards?

See, Mik gets it!

Rich, my point is I wouldn’t buy any convertible that’s had a dealer repair or replace its roof. Webasto started supplying Porsche Targa systems in the 90’s, plus a load of other parts on their cars and they’ve done a couple of generations of Mustang.

Orange Cola wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 2:26 pm See, Mik gets it!

Rich, my point is I wouldn’t buy any convertible that’s had a dealer repair or replace its roof. Webasto started supplying Porsche Targa systems in the 90’s, plus a load of other parts on their cars and they’ve done a couple of generations of Mustang.

And the current folding hardtop Targa 911s we are talking about, the ones with folding metal roofs? Are they supplied by webasto?

Plus how would you know if a targa roof had been replaced - it’s not like a fabric one where it’ll look newer!

The bit in the middle is still fabric.

But as it's a brand new car I don't think you have to worry about dodgy backstreet webasto converions yet...

integrale_evo wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 2:59 pm The bit in the middle is still fabric.

But as it's a brand new car I don't think you have to worry about dodgy backstreet webasto converions yet...

and all of them need replacing the second they come into the second hand market apparently!

If you’re buying a used car which is say a couple years old and has had a replacement roof that means it was fitted badly from factory to have failed so quickly
Plus the other point would then be if you buy a convertible you risk having to sell it once the roof fails as seemingly it’s irreparable which let’s face it they haven’t got the best reputation do they.

Why do they need replacing as soon as they’re second hand?

Orange Cola wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 3:09 pm Why do they need replacing as soon as they’re second hand?

well how else would you be sure the dealer hadn’t touched them - you have to assume they have been touched already!

Mito Man wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 3:09 pm If you’re buying a used car which is say a couple years old and has had a replacement roof that means it was fitted badly from factory to have failed so quickly
Plus the other point would then be if you buy a convertible you risk having to sell it once the roof fails as seemingly it’s irreparable which let’s face it they haven’t got the best reputation do they.

It’s unlikely to be a poor fit at the factory when they use proper jigs and quality checking methods so those failures are rarer. They can fail due to a design issue, all Mustangs built 2015-2017 have one which rips the fabric and needs a new roof and revised parts to stop it happening. They are also damaged a fair bit from people abusing them. The dealers don’t have the jigs or the training whatsoever from the OEM so the replacements become a lot of trouble because they’re complex to fit and the dealer is only paid a certain amount of time to fit them which is mostly consumed by them scratching their heads reading the workshop manual and trying to figure it out, anything done after that is on their own time i.e. a fair chunk of the fitting. They’re under pressure to just get the change done and get the car out the door.

Rich B wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 3:16 pm

Orange Cola wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 3:09 pm Why do they need replacing as soon as they’re second hand?

well how else would you be sure the dealer had t touched them??!

See one of my previous posts.

So no Mustang convertible built between 2015-2017 is worth owning?

Who said that?

So all 15-17 mustangs have a design fault which means they will rip their roof and need dealer attention - which will make them worse? Therefore making them worth avoiding?

Is that right?

I'm still not quite sure what any of this has to do with a brand new Porsche 992 targa tbh.

integrale_evo wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 4:12 pm I'm still not quite sure what any of this has to do with a brand new Porsche 992 targa tbh.

me neither!

If the owner fitted the original tonneau caps to the roof, which will have then damaged the convertible roof fabric due to their design then yes, I’d tell anyone considering one to steer well clear of the car. If the car hasn’t been damaged because the owner hasn’t fitted the caps, and the records from the dealer show it hasn’t had a new roof fitted then barring no other unrelated issues there’s no reason to avoid the car and get the revised parts which don’t have the issue.

It’s a complete assembly that has to be changed, you can’t just buy the outer fabric and fit that. It is a £6.5k cost for parts plus fitting to the dealer when it’s covered under warranty, so fuck knows what Joe Bloggs would be charged. Then there’s the issue around the dealer techs not knowing how to fit, adjust and align a roof. You could buy a car which has had a changed roof in the spring and not realise there’s an issue with it leaking until the Autumn which is well beyond any used car warranty that has run out of its original manufacturers warranty (3 years in the case of a Ford).

I was also dealing with other dealers to get mine fixed, every single one in the local area refused to take the car on because they have had no training from the OEM, the dealer groups which supported multiple brands stated the same for other cars they sell from other OEMs.

I was fortunate in that I got mine fixed under warranty, but only just, it took 18 months to Ford to sort out and it went to a specialist in the end. The secondary damage done to the car from the dealer techs resulted in:

3 whole replacement roof assemblies (at £6.5k each)
A new dash
A new headliner
A set of door and roof seals

You can’t possibly tell me you’d be happy taking that much risk on a second hand car if you knew about it? So yes, I’d say a Mustang which has had the roof damaged or changed by a dealer isn’t worth buying. After the experience I’ve had and the conversations with other dealers on other OEMs convertibles I would extend that view to any convertible which has had or needs a roof replacing by a main dealer.

So what you’re saying is that no Mustang convertible built between 15-17 is worth buying. Gotcha.

That’s exactly what I didn’t say.