OV9

Its an odd taxation now that you don't get tax relief on the mortgage interest you are paying as a landlord if you are a 40% or more tax payer. You effectively pay tax on rent not just the profit.

ETA - in percentage terms a btl landlord who's a 40% tax payer renting a house out for £800pm but has a £400pm interest only mortgage and no other costs would be liable for £240pm income tax. So an effective rate of 60% of the profit.

I've seen some where the effective rate was more like 80% due to the cost of borrowing !

Carlos wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:28 pm Its an odd taxation now that you don't get tax relief on the mortgage interest you are paying as a landlord if you are a 40% or more tax payer. You effectively pay tax on rent not just the profit.

ETA - in percentage terms a btl landlord who's a 40% tax payer renting a house out for £800pm but has a £400pm interest only mortgage and no other costs would be liable for £240pm income tax. So an effective rate of 60% of the profit.

I've seen some where the effective rate was more like 80% due to the cost of borrowing !

This came in 2 or 3 years ago, but a limited company escapes the new rules.

MikeHunt wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:02 pm

Carlos wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:28 pm Its an odd taxation now that you don't get tax relief on the mortgage interest you are paying as a landlord if you are a 40% or more tax payer. You effectively pay tax on rent not just the profit.

ETA - in percentage terms a btl landlord who's a 40% tax payer renting a house out for £800pm but has a £400pm interest only mortgage and no other costs would be liable for £240pm income tax. So an effective rate of 60% of the profit.

I've seen some where the effective rate was more like 80% due to the cost of borrowing !

This came in 2 or 3 years ago, but a limited company escapes the new rules.

It’s more than 2 or 3 years; I put my rental property into a company 5 years ago due to this.

Jobbo wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:14 pm

MikeHunt wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:02 pm

Carlos wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:28 pm Its an odd taxation now that you don't get tax relief on the mortgage interest you are paying as a landlord if you are a 40% or more tax payer. You effectively pay tax on rent not just the profit.

ETA - in percentage terms a btl landlord who's a 40% tax payer renting a house out for £800pm but has a £400pm interest only mortgage and no other costs would be liable for £240pm income tax. So an effective rate of 60% of the profit.

I've seen some where the effective rate was more like 80% due to the cost of borrowing !

This came in 2 or 3 years ago, but a limited company escapes the new rules.

It’s more than 2 or 3 years; I put my rental property into a company 5 years ago due to this.

Your probably right, one of the curses of getting older is how much faster time flies!

Largest swing against the Tories ever - Boris has managed the unique feat of turning people who wouldn't even need to think when voting into people who've actively voted against the Conservatives. He might still hang on longer but I think his legacy is going to be the breakdown of the historic Tory stranglehold on the shires. This could be the beginning of a brave new dawn, proportional representation, mainly coalition governments in future and, importantly, stability. Traditional Tory voters (like me) don't like the total ripping up of all the values they stood for.

Jobbo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:50 am Largest swing against the Tories ever - Boris has managed the unique feat of turning people who wouldn't even need to think when voting into people who've actively voted against the Conservatives. He might still hang on longer but I think his legacy is going to be the breakdown of the historic Tory stranglehold on the shires. This could be the beginning of a brave new dawn, proportional representation, mainly coalition governments in future and, importantly, stability. Traditional Tory voters (like me) don't like the total ripping up of all the values they stood for.

We live in hope! PR would bea good first step towards better representation.

Jobbo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:50 am mainly coalition governments and Stability

These two don’t go together

dinny_g wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:21 am

Jobbo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:50 am mainly coalition governments and Stability

These two don’t go together

They seem to in this modern world - more so than big majorities where anything can be forced through.

I'd trust a coalition of smaller parties to run a government more than two big parties who swap every few years once the one in power has fucked up enough to lose voters.

Jobbo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:49 am

dinny_g wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:21 am

Jobbo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:50 am mainly coalition governments and Stability

These two don’t go together

They seem to in this modern world - more so than big majorities where anything can be forced through.

I would have thought that a single party with a large majority was a far more stable prospect.

Coalition’s often fall at the compromise point. Parties with a core principle that is different and most compromise to achieve a consensus. That compromise is pushed and pushed until one party can’t continue to accept things

Ireland’s had far more coalition’s than overall majorities for the past 40 or 50 years and they rarely reach full term.

dinny_g wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:02 am I would have thought that a single party with a large majority was a far more stable prospect.

That's exactly the position we are in currently but they've gone back on manifesto promises, their own party ideals and fucked up the country - each time just to keep Boris in power for the next week. Take away the pursuit of power being the sole objective because it would be virtually impossible to become an elected dictator under PR and there might be decisions taken for the right reasons, not simply for sympathetic press headlines with no long-term plan.

I suppose the only way a large majority single party can fail is to self implode which is exactly what Boris is currently doing.

dinny_g wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:21 am

Jobbo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:50 am mainly coalition governments and Stability

These two don’t go together

Look at Scandinavia as an example. Continuous coalitions is the norm and while they're not without issues it generally tempers the excesses of one party as they're unlikely to steamroller their agenda through unopposed. It will bea far better outcome for the country than what we have now.

By having to work to consensus you get more stability.

DeskJockey wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:49 am

dinny_g wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:21 am

Jobbo wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:50 am mainly coalition governments and Stability

These two don’t go together

Look at Scandinavia as an example. Continuous coalitions is the norm and while they're not without issues it generally tempers the excesses of one party as they're unlikely to steamroller their agenda through unopposed. It will bea far better outcome for the country than what we have now.

By having to work to consensus you get more stability.

The other way of looking at it is you can never really get rid if you don't like what's been going on. Whereas in a majority based system with fewer parties the electorate can have a good clearout if they want.

They're both imperfect and I'm not convinced either is "better" than the other. But the current arrangement is certainly not working and it's very hard to argue against the principle of PR.

Britain isn’t Scandinavia

We couldn’t agree on the colour of shite…

dinny_g wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:20 pm Britain isn’t Scandinavia

We couldn’t agree on the colour of moles…

Black?

dinny_g wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:20 pm Britain isn’t Scandinavia

We couldn’t agree on the colour of shite…

If only people were capable of change or learning... Won't be easy, won't be quick but it is achievable.

Unfortunately, I fear we're moving in the other direction - at least in terms of political thought.

Everything seems to be just so extreme these days. It's not Tory V Labour, Conservative V Socialist anymore. It's Racist, Thieving, Liar Vs Leftie Workshy Commie!!! Gammon Vs Remoaner

We're so focused on our differences, I can't see a way back if I'm honest.

DeskJockey wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:59 pm

dinny_g wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:20 pm Britain isn’t Scandinavia

We couldn’t agree on the colour of shite…

If only people were capable of change or learning... Won't be easy, won't be quick but it is achievable.

Nope. I'm less optimistic about people being able to change to be honest. As dinny says, if anything we're more divided than ever - on everything, even if it's what type of sugar you put on your cornflakes.

You're not just talking about people though - you're talking about a cultural shift. This has been our way of doing things for hundreds of years - it used to be rioting and chopping off the queen/king's head. Now it's voting for a wholesale change in Gov't. It's a very British form of democratic sovereignty that will be difficult to change.

dinny_g wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:21 pm Unfortunately, I fear we're moving in the other direction - at least in terms of political thought.

Everything seems to be just so extreme these days. It's not Tory V Labour, Conservative V Socialist anymore. It's Racist, Thieving, Liar Vs Leftie Workshy Commie!!! Gammon Vs Remoaner

We're so focused on our differences, I can't see a way back if I'm honest.

It's a social media phenomenon I think, I have differences with people like we all do, but after a conversation face to face with a couple of people today with differing opinions we weren't as far apart on things as that list would have you believe, we all considered each others opinions, didn't shout and left I think with more respect for each other. This just doesn't happen on social media as it usually descends into a slanging match, maybe threats and sometimes attacks from rented offence mobs.
It's easy to be a keyboard warrior when you don't really know someone or can see any damage you may be causing. Most of us are centrists with a little drift to the left or the right maybe with some elements of both and essentially not bad people. There are very few actual extreme fascists' or commies fortunately.
Covid lockdowns exacerbated a lot of the issues by giving us a new divisive issue that could really only be discussed on social media furthering any divides there already were.
We also aren't helped my a media that persists in stoking fires for clicks.
I think we've genuinely regressed as a society since the 90's.